LY Podcast Ep. 31: Book Relaunch Strategies with Jodi Brandon

Speaker 1 (00:00): This is the Launch Yourself podcast, episode 31 with Jodi Brandon. Welcome to the Launch Yourself podcast. My name is Melissa Anzman. I'm a bestselling author and the CEO of two businesses, an employee experience company, and launch yourself where I help entrepreneurs diversify and scale their business by launching digital products each week, you'll hear mind blowing interviews, where we peek behind the curtain of other people's launches, as well as actual tips and strategies that you can implement in your daily work life to create launches that actually make you money. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let's get started. My guest on today's podcast. Jodi is someone that I really admire. I'm so excited. We were able to become friends, but we geek out all the time over books. So Jodi is an editor, extraordinary she and a book coach. And she actually helped me write my third book.

Speaker 1 (01:02): Brainstorm it, bring it to life, provide insights and all the goodies I worked with her. It was the first time I've worked with a book coach, and I will tell you, I don't think that I will ever write a book without her, by my side again. So her background Jodi's background, she has more than 20 years of experience in book publishing. And after working many years in traditional publishing, we have that in common. She worked at a big four, a book packager and a niche publisher. She's got it. Well-Rounded Jodi and her husband relocated from New York to Philadelphia and she launched her freelance editing business. Today. Jodi works primarily as a book publishing partner with creative entrepreneurs, bloggers, small business owners and solopreneurs who want to grow their business with a book. Now that's the bio, but let me tell you, she does so much more than that.

Speaker 1 (01:59): I seen both sides of the coin. I seen the traditional publishing when I worked in it, and I've seen the self publishing wild wild West. And I will tell you if you have an idea in your head and you want it to become a book, Jodi is the person I'd recommend in today's podcast. We are going to talk about how to relaunch a book, how to revise it, how to get it out there in the world. And the same principles are going to apply. If you're launching the book for the first time, I can't wait for you to hear this. So let's get started. All right, Jodi, thanks so much for coming to the launch yourself podcast. I'm so excited to have you on today. Jodi and I met via super random Instagram connection. I followed someone randomly who then was working with Jodi on her book and I was like, I need to know this Jodi chick and reached out. And she did a lot of help for me on creating my third book, the employee experience solution. So without her, that book would not have been published. I can say that confidently. And instead of it taking the disastrous six months that it took me, it probably would have taken six more years. So I am thrilled to have Jodi in my sphere and in my business life. And I'm really happy to have you on the show today. Welcome.

Speaker 2 (03:22): Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited that you invited me. I remember that very first conversation that we had where you were like, I follow this person and she's working on a book and I'm getting ready to start another book. And then we figured out we had all this like book history and

Speaker 1 (03:38): Yeah, so just a little insider info. So I really jived with Jodi because we both have worked in traditional book publishing and I geek out on that, Jodi, this is her career. So she totally geeks out on it. And so of all my friends who think I'm weird for knowing and caring about these little tiny details about the backend of book publishing, I can just, you know, have a quick email with Jodi and we get it all out and we're like, yeah, did you see that at publisher's marketplace? That was crazy. And go down a rabbit hole. So yeah. It's yeah. It's one of my favorites. Yes. It is a super niche group of us out there. Small group, small getting smaller every day as self publishing grows. Right. But super interesting. So on the podcast, we like to go super deep on one launch or a pivot or digital product in your business and just understand like what worked, what didn't and all that fun stuff. So with that in mind, I'd love for you to share with us what launch you want to talk about today.

Speaker 2 (04:42): I think even though this is not one of the things that we even had discussed as a possibility, I think what would, as far as going deep, I think what would be good is my own book launch because when I launched my book for the first time, I don't know if I've ever even talked about this with you, Melissa. My book was like in the middle of it was done being written and it was with my editor when my mom was diagnosed with terminal stage four cancer and was, she was given 12 weeks to live, but she ended up, I listen, we ended up getting two and a half years with her. That's not the point of the story, but the point was, I was already so deep into it with the book that I went ahead and launched anyway, which was like the dumbest thing to do, because we were like, my family was living life and these little 12 week like increments and my book came out in one of them and it was like, I didn't, well, I didn't care. Right. You had more important things to actually worry about. So my efforts towards marketing a promotion were crap, which, you know, and especially as someone who knows the book industry, I knew the result that that was going to yield and it did. Of course. So then, you know, a couple of years went by and I relaunched the book actually almost a year ago. Yeah, almost a year ago. And yes, you know, did things be quote unquote right way as I teach my clients to much better success go figure.

Speaker 1 (06:15): Imagine that imagine. Yeah. So I'm sorry about your mom, but I am, you know, I'm glad you had that extra time with her. So let's focus on that book launch and I'd really like to better understand, you know, what, in your business, in your sort of time of being instigated, the fact that you needed to write your own book, like, what was that like pivot for your business or if you want, why you relaunched it because it was several years after your first launch that you did decide to relaunch it. So what was that deciding factor for you or that turning point?

Speaker 2 (06:50): Well, I mean, nonfiction books sometimes reach a shelf life where you need something happens in the industry, or, you know, you have new and better case studies, what examples, whatever the case might be, where it makes sense to do a revised edition. And that was the case from, I mean, my book is about writing and publishing and marketing a book, self publishing, which is what I teach my clients to do in one-on-one work. And so when I initially thought of the book, it was sort of, you know, like a top of funnel kind of thing to get people, you know, build what I teach my clients, build my own credibility, you know, grow my own audience, grow my email list, all of those things. And then in between the first and second additions you know, I mean, Amazon changed in such a big way, which, I mean, we could talk about Amazon for 15 years.

Speaker 2 (07:40): I mean, love Amazon. I have a very strong love, hate relationship with Amazon. Amen. But they changed their publishing process and they got, they sort of combined their ebook division KTP wa and got rid of create space, which was their print division, which, you know, obviously my book is for self publishing authors. So that is a big piece of the publishing section. So I mean, it made sense for me to sort of, you know, bring that up to, up to date and get back. So, yeah, so that was sort of the impetus, but then I was like, then I sort of stepped back and saw that, you know, there are other things that I could change. Other examples I could add in and swap out and things like that. And, you know, sort of really launch it you know, properly.

Speaker 1 (08:22): I love that. Like just sort of revisiting and using a good opportunity to maybe do it better or the right way, the second time around with a real reason to relaunch versus, Hey, it didn't go so well, let me do it again. It was, let me update it, make those changes, may improve it and go back to market. Right. So at that time for your relaunch I know this is what you teach people and what your zone of genius is, but I'm really curious if during that process, what other you had, whether it was coaches or podcasts or mentors or clients, like how did you get your launch detailed out? Was it you in a room? Did like how did that all work?

Speaker 2 (09:08): Yeah, it was definitely me in a room with a lot of sticky notes. I definitely everything for me. I have to write it down. It ends up in a digital tool. It ends up in a sauna, but everything starts on paper. So I'm kind of like a mad scientist. I've got, you know, PostIt notes of every different size and shape and color. And then I've got, you know, like the big, I have a huge whiteboard in my office that's like eight foot square. So just sort of, you know, like mapping out, you know, what I've seen other people do that I thought was neat or, you know, what I've seen other people do that I was like, that is stupid and that's not going to work. Why would you do something like that? So, I mean, like my nieces and nephews, when they come over, they, they all love at any age.

Speaker 2 (09:55): They love the big cute, they call it the big giant board. And they always like draw a line down the middle and they want to write like two lists, no matter what it is. Like, it doesn't matter what it is. It's different for every kid. But I ended up doing that. I was like, yes, ideas and no ideas. And it was just, you know, I just sort of did what I do, like with my one on one clients, which is just like brainstorm the heck out of it and see, you know, how what's the best way for me to get the book into, in front of new people or in front of people, you know, they want to DIY the whole thing and the book is going to, that's what they're going to get from me. And then, you know, people who are going to get the book, read the book, love the book, and then think like, no, I don't actually want to do this myself.

Speaker 2 (10:38): I want a little more help. And then, you know, so it's sort of like the two different audiences and how you, you know, kind of serve them both. But yeah, no, I was, it was really just me and then talking to a lot of my, you know, like my book publishing colleagues, like, Hey, what do you like, what do you think about this? Have you seen this work? Is this the dumbest thing I've ever said is this like how, like, where I'm really stuck on this? How can we make it work? That kind of thing. And then just, you know, like all the usual things, like, where am I, who am I going to get from my book launch team? Who can I get, you know, to share the book? How can I get in front of other people's, you know, spaces that maybe I haven't been in front of before? So, yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:18): I love that. And one of the things that makes me laugh a little is you're like all the normal things where most people don't know those are the normal thing, right. Have that own you know, insight. Cause I'm always like, Oh, you know, she just launched it. And they're like, what, what, like how, what are the steps and the process, and that's super helpful. What, like, as part of that launch, what worked super well for you or like better than expected as part of your launch plan?

Speaker 2 (11:49): Honestly it was, it was the same thing that I did before, which is to use a chapter of the book as the optin email, like build the email list. And then, you know, how did you, how did you go about building the email list? I'm just visibility really. You know, lots of visibility. I mean, you get so sick of hearing yourself, talk about your book and yourself and like, like you think, like, is there anyone following me that does not know that it starts with a brain dump at this point? Because I talk about it like every five seconds, but yes, there are like, there are still lots of people who don't because, you know, they're scrolling through Instagram stories or they're new to you or whatever. So yeah, it's, I mean, it really is those, those same things that we talk about in business when you're launching something like you've got to talk about it until you're sick of talking about it and you know, like get down in there and do do the work.

Speaker 2 (12:47): I mean, it, yeah, I love that visibility and it's, it's hard for some people, like, it's very hard for me personally. I, you and I sort of talk about it all the time. I'm like, I don't want to be at the front of that. Like, I'll just put my book cover up and walk away, which doesn't help anything. So it's not going to sell a book. We know that. So using your chapter of your book as an opt in is brilliant. And I see a lot of authors doing it and then I see others like me who don't do it. So tell me, like, how did the funnel work once they opted in for the free chapter? Like what kind of K next to help them buy the book? Well, I mean, I can't take credit for this cause I have a brilliant copywriter who helps me immensely.

Speaker 2 (13:35): But, and she sort of set up like the whole thing. She's like, we've got to get them, we've got to hook them in with a chapter. And I do think that this is easier with fiction books. Sometimes books are, you know, I mean, if you read a sample, we fall in love with a character or whatever and nonfiction books, it's, it's different. Especially with a book that, you know your books the same way, like you're kind of going through a framework. So it's like, okay, well, do I pick a chapter from the first part or the second part? You know? So, I mean, it's kind of a crap shoot and you can try different things. And you, for mine, it's sequential, you have, you can't publish and market a book that isn't written. So you do start marketing early on, but I, I digress.

Speaker 2 (14:24): But so writing is the first step. So that's what it was. And then, you know, I just got them sort of into my email list and, you know, was taught, had book related content coming out in my newsletter. And then when, you know, when the book came out, I had a big launch team of cheerleaders sharing it and, you know, had, you know, like some swag, some bookmarks and, you know, stickers and, you know, stuff like that. And just did like an online launch party. And, you know, just trying to build up the buzz really. I mean, you build up the buzz, however you can. I mean, a book like mine is not going, it's not the kind, that's going to feel sexy to like bookstore owners. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I would love to have a book signing of my book write published market because how many of their customers are entrepreneurs who want to write a book

Speaker 1 (15:13): Probably more than they think to your point, right. If the bookstore shelves are so limited and even more so now that getting in having that more traditional pub path, which doesn't even work for traditionally published books, most of the time, these days is not something to rely upon. And so, like you said, building up your own buzz and just for anyone who doesn't know a launch team, particularly for a book is like creating little ambassadors for your book. People who are going to share it, talk about it. Even if it's, you know, just an Instagram reshare or repost or, you know, a testimonial it's having other people tell their audience and their people about your faith. Yup, exactly. So the free chapter sounds like it worked really well as did your launch team and some buzz and being visible, all really good things. What did not work as you hoped? What was one of the things that you either had to keep going back and refining or you're like never again share those

Speaker 2 (16:23): Let's. I mean, I think honestly, it's really, it's not so much that things didn't work. It's just that as an introvert, it's launching as exhausting of anything in business launching is exhausting. So yeah, I mean, there were days when I was just like, I am not in storing about this book again. I'm just, I'm not doing it today. When I know that I could have it would have been beneficial to do so. But I, you know, fool myself into thinking, not fool myself. It's true. That a book is like, it's the long game. It's a marathon. It's not a sprint, especially when you're not, I mean, my goal is not to sell a million books. My goal is to sell a smaller number of books and get them in the right hands of people who are then going to come into my world and my funnel and work with me in different ways, whether that's one on one coaching or one-on-one editing or, you know, part of my, you know, my group program, the right life. I mean, there's, you know, different ways for people once they're in, but it's about getting the people in versus, you know, becoming like a bestseller.

Speaker 1 (17:30): Yeah. Let's pause on that for a minute. Cause you and I talk about this all the time and it's worth, I know, right. It's worth repeating and sharing and spreading and getting the word out. Cause I know I have to tell people all the time, particularly my parents, like this book is not written to be on the New York times. I keep getting when's it going to be on the New York times best sellers list. I'm like, it's not. And there's a reason for that. A lot of reasons, but you and I have both worked on books who have hit the New York times, best sellers list and many others in different capacities. And one of the things that I like to, I want to just evangelize about for business owners, entrepreneurs who are looking to write a book, it is you have to be super clear what your purpose is for the book and 99.9 out of a hundred times, it should not be to get on the New York times best sellers list.

Speaker 1 (18:27): That's not going to help your business and it's not reasonable and it's very expensive to do. So all those things being said, when you go about writing a book for your business, the whole point is to get people into your biosphere. Like you want them to get to know you create that expertise. And so getting them in the door, like you said, top of funnel, I idea or concept is a better and more lucrative payoff for your book than trying to just write a bestseller without any connection or attachment to your business. Do you agree Jodi?

Speaker 2 (19:08): Well, first of all, I wish I'd been recording all of that on my phone because I feel like you just did like one giant ad for my business. Excellent. Yes I, yes. I second, every single thing that you said yeah, it's not about like a bestseller list or the other question everybody asks all the time, how many books have you sold? Right. Like that's, I mean, sure. Like it's great to have a high number of books sold, but it's more important what those sales have done for you. Book sales have done for you because you're going to make me as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, your money. I mean, you're not living off of your book income. I mean, spoiler alert. I'm so sorry, but you're not right. It's not happening, but the money comes around the back end. The money comes from, you know, like those one on one leads, the higher paying, like one on one clients, the group members members into your programs and memberships and all of those things. I mean, that's, it's book related income, but it's not coming off of like a royalty statement or a check from Amazon.

Speaker 1 (20:16): Right, right. And I'd love to talk a little bit about where you sell your books and how you sort of fit that into your business. So cause how you and I use our books is slightly different. And so I think adding that perspective is super helpful. I'm actually, so this

Speaker 2 (20:36): Is exciting because I actually haven't talked about this publicly before, but so we're switching over to accept sales directly from my site because we're going to bundle that we're like a, like a mini funnel. And we're going to bundle a book sale with a, a train, a new training that I'm putting together. On, I get a lot of questions about, you know, repurpose and content. Like I've already written so much. I have a, I've been blogging for five years or, you know, I have a YouTube channel and I have transcripts of like two years where the video, like all that kind of stuff, but how do I, so then I say, great, that's awesome. So you're not starting from zero words. Like you probably have, you know, maybe 10, 15,000 words we can use, but how do you get it into a format you can use for your book? Which to me, again, like, you know, far as for the trees to me makes perfect sense. You just, you do it, but like if you, if you've never done it, but Jodi, how do I do that? So I have

Speaker 1 (21:38): Right idea. I never thought of that. Thank you. And then what,

Speaker 2 (21:46): So I put together this training that we're going to kind of bundle with a book and see how that does, but right now I am selling it through Amazon. And again, like the love, hate thing with Amazon, it is despite the fact that I am not in it for the book sales, I do want to know who my people are for retargeting and all of that. And Amazon, I mean, listen, they're not, they don't care if I have that information like them, Amazon is worried about their bottom line, not my bottom line or anything about my business. So, you know, I mean like, absolutely like my book will stay on Amazon and I've, you know, chosen my categories and keywords very carefully so that some of those random people who are just looking for a one stop resource can find the book and hopefully it will be useful to them. But for those people who are going to, you know, have a deeper and longer relationship with me as an author you know, I think it makes more sense to get them onto, you know, into my biosphere sooner than them, you know, buying the book and then following, following up by following me on social media or whatever, and coming in that way, like we can cut out that step for a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (22:59): Yeah. I love that. So I use my books a little differently in the way I sell them is a little differently. So my first and it started kind of awkwardly my first two bucks. I sold on Amazon and on my own because I was a control freak. And this was back in the day, this is eight years ago. Now I want to say. And so I always had my own website selling the book and I used a third party vendor to do that. For the most part, they could buy a signed copy on my website, but, and you still can do that. Like you can still buy them on Amazon or buy them through. I use Gumroad like, you can do that because I had packages. I didn't just have a book. I had buy the book with this or by the book with this and that.

Speaker 1 (23:41): And so, you know, some additional upsell in comm available there and I actually sold decent amount of the upsells to make it worthwhile. Like I wasn't sure about that. My book was very inexpensive. My first few books, very inexpensive, very short, very tactical. So that's how I used it. And then as I started speaking those books, which were not at all related to the topic I was speaking on were actually for sale for me to sign after I spoke. And I was like, wow, like why, why is this book about job search and hate it not hating your job? Why are these books selling? When I'm speaking about employee experience, this is so weird to me. And it's like, they just want more view. Right? And so I was very intentional with this book and I'll use the excuse. That's why it took me so long.

Speaker 1 (24:36): It's a lie, but I'll use it. But with this book, I actually did something very different. It is a very expensive book. It is very long. It is strategic and tactical, but you're it, you learn deep in my book and can apply it. It's not just theory, like most HR books out there. And I originally launched it on March 10th, which was about six days before the world closed. Actually the world was already closing. I watched it cause I was, I happened to have been speaking in Oakland and they're like, are we sure we're going to do this? We did. It was stupid. But anyway, I digress. So I originally was just going to sell the paperback version of my book. I actually did a hybrid of Ingram and Amazon for the book. We can talk about whether or not that's a good idea and sold it on my website as well for signed copies.

Speaker 1 (25:33): So a lot of orders came in through my website because they were already on my email list and they were waiting for the bucks. So that was great. When the world closed, Amazon stopped printing books. So immediately I already had it done because you know how I am, I uploaded the Kindle version. So I am selling that the Kindle version only on Amazon right now, now all that being said, how we use our books a little differently in addition to how we sell them. Jodi is a master at bringing people into her biosphere with her book. I use my book as a reminder of, Hey, you just saw me speak, here's the book. And so it's more of a takeaway for me than an entry point to my funnel. Although I have obviously gotten people through the book, but I need to balance that out a little bit more, most authors who also speak, do the same.

Speaker 1 (26:38): They've got it at the front end and the backend. Which I mean, of course end, especially. I mean, you'd be foolish in my, I mean, I talk about this all the time with clients and potential clients. If you're a speaker that doesn't have a book to sell at the back of the room, dumb. Yeah. Like you got it. Like you got to, that's like built in sales. It is don't listen. I was speaking for three years with my old book. Totally unrelated and making money, like, but I didn't really pay attention until I saw one of my friends sell her buck at the end of her speech. And I had to help her take money, had to help her take the money. People were throwing at her at the end of her speech. And I was like, Oh, so right. So that I should be okay.

Speaker 1 (27:24): Good. So you're right. If you, if you have any speaking career of any sort, having something to sell at the end, like a book is a great opportunity to prepare no brainer. For sure. Opens up, it opens up opportunities. You can sell at the back of the room for, for cash. A lot of, you know, conference organizers will say, you know, like we'll buy X number. Like, you know, everybody who's attending. I mean, yeah, like you just have opportunity to have options. Yes. And you know, we were talking a minute ago about books, sales numbers don't really matter. Then you're not going to get rich on your book sales. You're not okay. Like most of us are not. However, when you add a book as a next thing, when you speak or next thing after a course or bundle it with something, you do start making real money from it.

Speaker 1 (28:19): And so I think it's really important to think of your book as a product and not just a book. And it's a different mindset because I mean, when you, I think again, my parents who are like winded hitting the list and I'm like, it does more for me than just hit a list. Right. Then. So, but people outside the book world, I mean, I get it. They're not in the book world. So it's like, everybody knows about the best seller lists. Right. So if you're not on the best seller list, they're like, are you just making excuses because your book isn't doing that well, it's like, I forgot what I wanted to do. Yeah. I know.

Speaker 1 (29:01): I have a whole list now of like responses when my family members and you're like, how many books did you sell this week? And I'm like, really? I mean six, like, or I don't know. I didn't look, which is mostly true because, you know, unless they're coming into my website, I am not checking Amazon every day. But that's really funny. It, it needs to have a purpose. And for me, it's not to be on the list or make money. It's a bundle. It's all those other, it's a product. Yup. Okay. So other than you not feeling always excited to be visible as an introvert online to talk and promote your book or talk again about your book. Did you have any other weird challenges that you didn't foresee like with the actual sales of it, the ongoing conversations, anything unforeseen pop up like that was just like, Ooh, I'm not sure that this is what I wanted it to be. I didn't necessarily have that happen.

Speaker 2 (30:00): And I find though that, like the second I uploaded the book, I was like, you know, that conclusion sucks. I should rewrite the conclusive now I'm in that place where I like talk clients off the ledge all the time about like, no, like it's

Speaker 1 (30:20): Ready, it's ready. Stop making changes, put your hands off the keyboard, go away.

Speaker 2 (30:28): Yeah. Like I, my own like worst nightmare right now. So I just, you know, I, I do what I teach and I, you know, started a little Assana board for revisions that I want to make the next time because I'm sh I mean, it, I mean, especially now with the world, you know, blowing up I'm sure that there will be a third edition of write, publish and market within, you know, the next couple of years and I can make those changes. But I think, I mean, that's a good lesson too, is that even if things don't go perfectly or the way you want or whatever, I mean, pivot and make, you know, I mean, I'm talking with people every single day right now who like are launching books or have books. And they're just like, what should I do? Should I go ahead? Should I not, should I, I mean, any in person stuff obviously is canceled. So, but then, you know, like you can double down on, you know, podcasts, interviews and other, you know, a lot of events are going virtual, things like that. So, I mean, there are ways around it, it just, we definitely have to be more creative today than we used to.

Speaker 1 (31:35): Definitely. And also, like, there's so much opportunity in that too, in some ways, right? Like more people are having time to read for example, or are on Amazon or are listening to podcasts and can find out about you. And so it's always a trade off and, you know, book writing and book sales is a long tail. Like your launch is the beginning it's day one. And for those of us who have written a book and launched it, it's almost like day zero, because you're like, okay, now I have to start all over again with this new process. And so very much, I always just say to, like, for people, like, you gotta find what's comfortable to you. Like you can't like the prelaunch and launch day or week activity. You can't

Speaker 2 (32:25): The momentum up for the long game or, I mean, you'll burn out so fast, but so you just remind yourself, okay. The books, the book is out there now, so I can promote it now as much, or as little as I want. But I mean, don't do nothing. I mean, it's not like, Oh, build it and they will come. No, that's not what happened. Like, or, you know, someone said to me, like, not that long ago, they were like, Oh, well, I put my book on Amazon and like, nothing's really happening. I'm like, I am, there's millions of books on Amazon. It's going to be hard for someone to just find you. Yeah. I mean, you have to use Amazon strategically, if you want people to just find you. And even then there are millions of books, especially with self publishing, which is great. It's like taken down so many, like, you know, barriers to entry in the industry, but it's also taken down so many barriers to entry that like any schmuck on the street, it's like, Oh yeah, I'm an author too now. And I'm like, are you like, like, is that worth it?

Speaker 2 (33:33): I mean, I tell you all the time, my my friend who lives next to my name, my next door neighbor, and I are friends and she started writing romance novels. And when she first started out, she was like, Oh, she said, I don't understand how you can make a living as an editor. She said, I just, you know, she said, I just got my whole book edited. She's like, I can't believe it. She's like, it cost like $300. And I was like, Oh, I was like, I was like, how is your book? And she's like, like 90,000. And I was like, okay, that's not a profound one. That's not a professional editor. And she's like, kind of, it took a whole week a week. Right. Are you kidding me? I was like, okay, listen, let's just like, first of all, let's sit down and talk about a couple of things.

Speaker 2 (34:22): Let me enlighten you on how it actually should work. So, I mean, so like that kind of thing makes, I mean, and that kind of thing is happening all over the place more with fiction and nonfiction then. Yeah, my opinion. But it makes it harder to break through some of those like takeaways and lessons that people need to understand about like pro especially entrepreneurs. Like you don't want to just throw something up on Amazon, like you want a professionally produced product or your, the publishing industry is, I mean, it's very slow to catch up. It's. I mean, it's an archaic industry as you know, I mean, so, I mean, we're getting in there, but I mean, those wheels on the train are moving slowly. So yeah. I mean, it's, it's self publishing is great, but then on the flip side, so you've got to, you know, do all this, have to do it right.

Speaker 2 (35:17): Self publishing. Isn't a, I wrote a book and it's here. It's like, you're writing a book. Like you want it to have purpose, be intentional habit. Well-Received have it reflect well on your brand and your business. Yeah. I think one of the best things is industry has done in like, I mean, this is not decades, but a long, long time is the, the checklist of publishing standards that the IBPA in independent book pro producers, publishers association, excuse me, put out about a year and a half, two years ago. And for how long, like hybrid publishers and self publishers and author entrepreneurs and single authors to just kind of like, Hey, these are the things that if you were, if a book, but traditional book publisher was publishing your book. Yeah. I mean, and it's silly little things, but it's things that if you don't work in books, like it would never occur to you. Like, Oh, I shouldn't have an extra space between paragraphs. I should be in denting my paragraphs. Well, yes, you should. Because this is book design, not graphic design.

Speaker 2 (36:22): It has to have that conversation with it. I didn't do a double enter, but I would, I am not for the invention for a paragraph, but my book is invented after a paragraph because this is a guideline that, yeah. Cause that's, you know, that's, you know, and those little things, all sort of, I mean, no book is going to be perfect because we're still humans. We have human eyes and human hands that are producing these books. If you can make it so that if I'm holding up your book and I'm holding up a book that random house published, I don't want to be able to tell the difference. Right. You can't book is lovely. Yes. I mean, that's like, that's your intentional, right? Absolutely. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. So Jodi, what advice do you have for someone else who's looking to launch a book or relaunch their book?

Speaker 2 (37:16): I mean, just like we've been talking about it. I think it's just to be really clear about what your goals are for you and your business. And for your readers. I mean, you've got, gotta be clear about both of those things equally because the, where they intersect is the sweet spot and that's how you're going to get in front of the right people. And the message is going to resonate. If those two things are happening. You know, at the same time, I mean, like, it sounds so simple, but like that, like, that's really like take the time to figure out, like, you don't want to write a book because like, Oh, your friend wrote one or, you know, it seems like, I mean, like I get it, like books are cool. Books are cool to me too. That's why I like schlepped and moved up to New York City two weeks after college graduation for cool.

Speaker 2 (38:01): But publishing is, is cool. But you gotta like pull that curtain back and like realize it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard work and there's no immediate impact. Like it's very much a long tail. But you're right. Like if you focus on those audiences and the purpose, I think you're on the right track. Jodi, where can people find you online? You CA my website is Jodi Brandon editorial.com. That's getting a make-over right now during this pandemic is I'm doing a lot of things on my, you know, like someday rainy day business. Yeah. I love that. As people's schedules have like expanded their book, writing schedules, which I totally, I don't have kids at home, but most of my clients do have small children at home. So I had that rush at the beginning of I think I need to like adjust my writing and production.

Speaker 2 (38:58): You do. I bet those kids interrupting are definitely helping you say, you need to change. I have, I have two siblings with small children and I've talked to them almost every day. So I bet you do have to adjust a couple things. So I'm using this opportunity to give my website a refresh. So I'm excited about that. And then I'm on, you know, I'm on Instagram and I'm on Facebook also at Jodi Brandon tutorial, LinkedIn, you know, all the places, all the places. Well, we'll be sure to put them in the show notes, Jodi, it has been so great having you on the show and geeking out about books like we often do. I really appreciate your help and insight into your relaunch experience. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was such a fun combo

Speaker 1 (39:44): To join the free launch yourself workshop. Where you'll learn your why digital products aren't selling nearly as much as he planned for and how to diversify and scale your income by launching the right way. Text launchyourself, all one word to 44222.