LY Podcast: Ep. 33 : Pivot Your Business into a Movement with Michelle Mazur

Melissa Anzman (00:00):
This is the launch yourself podcast, episode 33 with Dr. Michelle Mazur.

Melissa Anzman (00:05):
Welcome to the last yourself podcast. My name is Melissa Anzman. I'm a bestselling author and the CEO of two businesses, an employee experience company, and launch yourself where I help entrepreneurs diversify and scale their business by launching digital products each week, you'll hear mind-blowing interviews, where we peek behind the curtain of other people's launches, as well as actual tips and strategies that you can implement in your daily work life to create launches that actually make you money. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let's get started

Melissa Anzman (00:43):
On today's show. I'm really excited to have my friend and former coach Dr. Michelle Mazur. Join us now. I was lucky enough to work with Michelle several years ago. When I was about to jump into start my speaking career, I needed some help to figure out what I should talk about. And so I met Michelle at a conference. We hit it off and I worked with her and my speaking career took off, but she's so much more than that. Michelle wants to know what makes you angry, working with brilliant business owners who are shaking things up, but having trouble talking about it. She combines the tools of successful social movements with the qualitative research skills she earned in her communication Ph.D., by getting clear on both what they stand for and what they're rebelling against. She helps clients craft a powerful, captivating message that has audiences flocking to hire them and are desperate to spread the word.

Melissa Anzman (01:44):
She's the author of three books, including the newly released 3 Word Rebellion, and is the host of the rebel rising podcast. Michelle has been featured in places like fast company entrepreneur and inc. She's the founder of communication rebel in part because she thinks nothing is more heartbreaking than watching someone who could change the world fail just because they took 30 rambling minutes to explain what they do. She knows that having a clear and captivating message is the key to reaching the people. You could help the most in a way that is powerful and feels effortless. And my friends, she does that every single day. Whether you follow her online, whether you read her amazing book or you start your own three word rebellion, she is going to help you figure it out and then talk all about it in the right ways. Let's dive in. Hey, Michelle, thanks so much for coming on the podcast today. I am so freaking excited to interview you. You and I met at a strange thing for me because I don't go to a lot of conferences. So we met at a conference, I don't know, four years ago now I don't want to date us too much, maybe.

Michelle Mazur (03:07):
Yeah. Oh my gosh. Maybe more than that,

Melissa Anzman (03:10):
Maybe. So we met at a conference and I randomly sat down at your table. And I didn't know that I was sitting at the cool kids table because I happened to literally sit down at the table of all the speakers at the conference. And I had no idea. So add this awkward, introverted person who doesn't go to conferences. And I literally like jumped into the deep end with the people who were the bomb at the conference. So that was awesome. But I met Michelle and she was super nice to me, which I loved, but also I ended up working with her cause I was so impressed with what she did and what's going to say, and all that fun stuff. So long introduction of how I know you, but welcome. It's so exciting to have you on the show. Well, thank you,

Michelle Mazur (03:57):
Melissa. I'm so excited to chat with you today.

Melissa Anzman (04:00):
Awesome. So in each episode, I really like to talk about a specific launch or a pivot and we go deep here or no fluff. We're going to go deep on a specific launch or product. So with that in mind, what product do you want to talk about?

Michelle Mazur (04:18):
Yes. So when you met me, I was still exclusively working with speakers. And then I pivoted to my new framework, which is the three word rebellion, which is a book. And it's my main jam now. And that's a messaging framework. So we can talk about that, launch that pivot so we can go deep into that.

Melissa Anzman (04:43):
I love it. And it's so good. I have your book and all versions. And I do I'm nerdy that way, but I love it. It's so helpful. And I'm so glad that you pivoted because you did help me with figuring out my speaking career, like you helped me get it together and launch it and it's still going strong. So thank you for that. But it is the, like the framework is the core of what you taught and you do it even better now. So I'm excited that you have it. So with the three word rebellion, I'd love to understand what made you decide to create it and have your creation

Michelle Mazur (05:21):
A book. Yes. So it happened, I think it was at the end of either 2015 or the end of 2016. I can't remember the year. Like I'm so bad with years anymore. They all seem to blend together. But I was at this time where I was just done with speaking, like I was over the speaking industry and it was December and I wrapped up the last episode of my podcast, which is now the rebel rising podcast that used to be the rebel speaker podcast. And I was just like, I can't talk about anymore. Like, I'm over it. I don't want to talk about how to get speaking gigs, how to market yourself as a speaker, how to pitch yourself, how to write a speech. I was just like done, done, done. I felt like I was one Google search away from being replaced because as a speaking coach, I know, but it was just like, I didn't feel like I was really living up to my purpose or my potential with the work I was doing in the world. And the other thing is I really hated the speaking industry because there's a lot, that's wrong with the speaking industry between not wanting to pay its speakers. A lot of, you know, manipulative sales tactics. There's, there's a lot wrong there and, and I just didn't want to participate anymore. And that's kind of left me with like, well, what the hell am I going to do now? Or

Melissa Anzman (06:55):
Right. Well, cause you had a thriving business as a speaker coach and, and a great podcast. And I mean, like you were doing all the things and you were making a good living at it. And so you're like, okay, so this isn't a fit. It isn't a match.

Michelle Mazur (07:09):
What do I do? And I was like, Oh, okay, I'm just going to sit with this because I'm not a huge believer in like what's burned down your business. That's never a great idea in my opinion, when you're feeling like that. Yeah. I agree with you. Yeah. So it was around that time when I was seeing like all the rise of the social movement. So this was after the election of 2016. So it was, you know, I was looking at social movements like black lives matter and never again and times up and even make America great again. And I was always impressed at how movements are. So any bull to succinctly say what it is that they want to create in the world. And then I started thinking about the entrepreneurs and the speakers that I loved the most, you know, people like Simon Sinek and start with why or Mel Robbins in the five second rule. And I sought, that's really interesting. Those speakers and business owners do the exact same thing. Like they have a way to communicate what they're about the change they want to create for their audience in a way that's super succinct. And I'm like curious, these things are similar to each other,

Melissa Anzman (08:32):
Is that by design or on?

Michelle Mazur (08:35):
I know. And I thought, well, I wonder if I could take questions from social movements because you know, my PhD is in communication and I was like, Oh yeah. Remember that social movement theory class that I had back in the day. I'm like, I wonder if I took some of those questions about like, you know, what wrong with the status quo? What pisses you off? What change do you want to create in the world? What if my clients would free write on those? Could I help them create eight, their version of start with why make, could that be something? And so my clients who are wonderful and amazing, like you Melissa, we're like, sure, that sounds awesome. I'll give it a go. And what I found is that it worked because I always had this thing about ranting and the change you want to create.

Michelle Mazur (09:27):
Like that was something I was always consistent in my speaking. And so that wasn't a big leap. And so then I was like, okay, well, I'm applying this in a different way. I was like, Oh, this is so awesome. It's working. And so I was meeting with a friend of mine who is a book coach, because I was thinking about really writing my first book, speak up for your business. And I was like, Oh yeah, I'm thinking about rewriting the book. And then I was like, Oh, and I have this new idea. And I was telling her about it. And she's like, Oh my gosh. She's like, this is awesome. She's like, you could call it something like the three words, speech, and that's what you should write your next book on. And I was like, yeah. And I don't want to work to speakers, but I love the idea of the three words, something.

Michelle Mazur (10:11):
And I was like, and so I went home and I was like three word. And it was funny. Cause like the book kind of outlined itself for me was pondering it. I was like, Oh, and this would be this chapter. There'll be a chapter about stepping up into leadership and why you should create a movement with your business. And so the book kind of outlined itself like a day or two later, I was like, Oh, it's the three word rebellion. Cause my business is called communication rebel. And I'm like, yeah, that's it. And then after that, the framework itself developed more. It was like, Oh, once you have your three words, well now you have a new problem. Cause you have to figure out how do I get people to buy into those three words and get people excited about them and wanting to work with me. And how do I tell the story about how I develop these birds? And like, Oh, there were all these other messaging problems that I could solve. And so that's how the framework kind of came about and that's how it became a book. And I think part of the reason it became a book is because I'm an academic and that's what we do. We're like, Oh, I have a new idea. I guess I'll write a book about it. Why not? I love it. I love it. That was my first

Melissa Anzman (11:28):
Go to as well. So I feel you on that. But what I really like and is so exciting is that it was an idea that sort of came like it, you weren't necessarily seeking it out. You were open to it. And the way that it was going to be packaged, came to you too, as a book, right? You're like, Oh, I see the sections. I see the chapters. I see the ideas were other than your book coach who helped you come up with this brilliant idea or at least put a little nugget in your brain about, Oh, like down the rabbit hole of that. Did you work with any coaches or programs or courses like to help you flesh it out?

Michelle Mazur (12:05):
So the book itself was just, I mean, it was my third book and I wrote a dissertation. So that was pretty easy. I did work with Erika Lyremark to help me develop the program that went with it because I was like, all right, like I have this book, I want to pivot my business to work with businesses on their messaging. And it was, I mean, it's not a huge leap to go from working with speakers on their messaging and their keynote speeches and their marketing to work with businesses on their messaging and their marketing. But it wasn't a leap enough. Like it was, you know, it was a pivot. So I worked with Erika Lyremark to help me like really kind of craft the program and make sure that that was clear and that the, like what I was delivering in the program was clear, but the book itself, it was like after the dissertation and two other books, I was like, alright, I know how to do this.

Melissa Anzman (13:08):
Yeah. I know the process. I naively thought that as well for my third book. And it was such a different process than anything else. Like it was so funny. I'm like I got this and I'm like, Nope, I don't have it. So I digress for your three word rebellion. I think what's really interesting. And what I'd like to maybe have you go deeper on, is the book itself is the idea and concept and the true like direction for your business. It is the three word rebellion. That is what you are about. That is, you know, everything you work at and for, and who you want to work with. But under that you sell other things like the book is almost the gateway into your atmosphere or your biosphere, so to speak so real quickly. Like, I mean, cause there's a lot of launches under there. I don't want to go deep on all of them, but if you could just share like how your book leads into other services or products.

Michelle Mazur (14:04):
Yeah. So I have the three word rebellion and within the book I wrote the I don't want to swear on your podcast, but that's Oh, okay.

Melissa Anzman (14:14):
Oh please do we are a swear happy.

Michelle Mazur (14:17):
Yes. So there is what I get there's chapter five of the book, which is some people will love chapter five and other people love the book. They get to chapter five and they say, Oh fuck that. I'm just going to hire her because then I get into the, like, you've done all this really fun, free writing. You got your ideas out of your head and then you get to chapter five and I'm like, Oh right. So now we have to think like a scientist to analyze all of your ideas, to come up with your message. And so that really leads to my one-on-one services, which I can help you create your three word rebellion. So when you get to that chapter five and you're like, Oh no, I don't want to do this. You can work with me. And there's a couple of different capacities to do that.

Michelle Mazur (15:08):
There's one where we can do all of your messaging. And there's like more of a starter package where we do, you know, your three word rebellion and then just kind of like client, a little bit of your client journey work. And then there's more of a longer term where we do your three word rebellion in your messaging and an asset in search you on your marketing journey. So we have some deep one on one work. We also do some things around. I like lower end. So I have a brand messaging map, which looks at all of your messaging. And so that's like a lower tier, like depending on whether I'm running a special or not anywhere between like $50 to 99, but that looks at your messaging as a whole. So anything from your mission, vision, and values to your positioning, to your client journey.

Michelle Mazur (15:57):
But that's like, so you can like have it all in one place. Cause our messaging tends to be scattered. I'm also looking at launching some different like online live trainings, pretty soon that are at a lower price point to help people with their messaging and their marketing because that's the messiest place for people. They don't really have a plan around their messaging and their marketing. So the three word rebellion is a thing that captures people's attention and they go like, Ooh, yeah, I want a three word rebellion. What's my three words. But then they can go to like higher end offerings or two trainings or get the brand message map and find out more

Melissa Anzman (16:39):
What I love about the three word rebellion. One of the things I love, I should say, cause there's a lot, as you know, I talked to you about it all the time, but one of the things I really love is for you and your business, it's exactly what you think other people should create via the three word rebellion, right? It is your movement and which is so interesting because I don't see a lot of people in the online space, at least the space that you and I sort of are in and know I'm doing a big level social movement concept. Like they're, they're, they're trying to sell things, right? Like they're trying to say I do this or I help this person, their avatar speak, which I don't even want to get down to avatar situations right now. But, and then they're like, okay, so the solution, this person needs is acts where you're saying no, no, no, no, no. What's your bigger purpose and message. What's your overlying overarching theme. And then the how our offerings, but it needs to sort of always be connected to your bigger.

Michelle Mazur (17:46):
Yeah. And that gives you far flexibility, especially right now we're in this, you know, COVID-19 time. It's like when you have that bigger message focused on the change you want to create in the world, you've got so much more flexibility on the offerings you can create. Because even for me with the three word rebellion, yes, I have the high end messaging one-on-one work, but that's also allowing me to be like, Oh yeah. And I'm going to do some online workshops that are at a lower price point because I know in uncertain times, people there are going to be people who need to work on their messaging and their marketing, but they're not going to be, they're not going to be willing to invest at that level. But since I have the three word rebellion, I can, you know, do that. But when you sell like LinkedIn, you don't have that results based message. And so for my clients right now, since they have like one of my clients, she works with businesses on their marketing and hers is all about her three word rebellion is profit without worry. So that's which I love, it's one of my favorite three word rebellions. Cause she went from marketing funnels to profit without worry.

Melissa Anzman (19:09):
I mean, you know, you have a guttural reaction, right. Profit without worry, right? Like you're like, no, what that is. I want that. Yeah.

Michelle Mazur (19:18):
I want that in my business. But if you think about it, how many things can she do underneath that moniker? Right? Like, yeah. She can offer her high level one-on-one services. She can offer a course or a coaching program, a group program under it. So she has a lot of flexibility and a lot of options versus if she's like I do marketing funnels

Melissa Anzman (19:44):
And let me just like go deep on that for a second. I know we're a little off topic, but I think it's so important because I stumbled across this often in the work that I do, I'm on the entrepreneur side, which is, well, I can do so much or I can't narrow down my offer or I don't like, why do I have to sell just one thing? And the thing is, is it's like, you're cause you're trying to sell a solution instead of an idea and like theory, right? Like, or a movement to your example, if you're trying to sell profit without worry, there are so many more things under that and solutions and deliverables, et cetera, versus please sign up for click funnels so I can teach you how to do a sales funnel. Like or something. That's not what yeah, exactly. Yeah. A different framework to look at your business and offering. So that being said back on track with the book itself and the launch. So tell me like what worked as you thought it would like what was one of those things that you're like, yes, this is how I planned it with the book launch and this really just

Michelle Mazur (20:48):
Was amazing. Yes. So podcast interviews worked really well for the book launch was so I did a ton of podcast interviews and I did some, like, I hired someone to do some pitching for me, which worked okay. But it was really interesting. Like just doing some, like I sent an email to my list. It was basically like, Hey, if you know anyone who has a podcast or you have a podcast, I would love to be on your show. And I got a massive response from that. Just being like, yeah, just being like, Hey, you know, this book is coming out. I want to get the farthest Reese possible. Like I don't even care if you have a big show. I just want to be able to talk about the book and people, like, I had somebody on my list who does PR and she was like, Oh yeah, I know like four or five people I can introduce you to. And I'm like, awesome. So that was really good. And I did get on some bigger shows with, you know, like doing outreach like that. So I highly recommend podcasts interviews for promoting a book. It's a really good way. Especially if you like talking and you like doing interviews, that was like one of my, it's still not of my favorite ways to promote my book.

Melissa Anzman (22:05):
It's true. Like the, you know, book marketing is so long tail and podcasts has made sure long tail. So it is such a good combination of being able to build up to the sale and also deliver immediate vocal in your ear impact in a really quick way. So that I'm so glad that worked for you.

Michelle Mazur (22:28):
Well, and I think you said something really important that book marketing is long tail. It's not just about the launch of the book. It's about the continued launch of your book, because that was one of the things I noticed with a lot of people who launch a book cause they launch a book and then you never hear them talk about the book ever again. And I am like, what happened to your book that you wrote that you spent months writing and then I never hear about ever, ever again. Did you do anything with that book?

Melissa Anzman (23:02):
It's past magically sound and you're onto your next thing. I mean, I joke a little cause I've been there, like I've totally right. Cause I feel like when you write a book, you do hit a point where it's like, I'm over the book. Cause you've been so in it. And then you just let it go. And the problem is, is the book is a long tail. So if you don't keep talking about the book, it's going to go away, no one else is going to talk about it for

Michelle Mazur (23:28):
Exactly. Exactly. And you have to keep Blake talking about the book and doing like little mini relaunches of the book or updates of the book. And then every time you do a little update of the book, you'll sell more copies of the book because it would surprise me like six months out, people that I was friends with would be like, Oh, I didn't know, you launched a book. And I'm like, how did you not know? Oh, I just bought your book yesterday. I'm like, we're good friends. How did you fuck up?

Melissa Anzman (24:03):
Alrighty. I mean, honestly, I still get that. I'm like, how did you literally, like, I, I have been, this is all I've been into. So that is a super common thing that happens, which is still a frustrating for us. Right? Like we're like, but we're marketing, we're doing all the things.

Michelle Mazur (24:22):
Oh yeah. And I'm always considering like right now I'm working on a quiz and one of the things on the quiz landing page, when you get those results is guess what? My book love it. You always have to figure out new ways to be plugging in the book. Especially if the book is related to one of the services you're selling, which is ideally what you want, which is kind of

Melissa Anzman (24:52):
The point. If you're writing a book for your business, although that is a whole nother conversation that so many people get wrong, but I digress on that. So that worked great. So podcasts really worked great for your book launch and for ongoing selling of your book, what didn't work as well as you hoped, like what was one of the things that was like a, you know, when you do your launch, I'm using air quotes there. When you do your launch, post-mortem like, what were you like this sucked, or this could have been better or this was not worth my time or all of the above.

Michelle Mazur (25:26):
So mine was more of a decision arrow that I made about book distribution. So I self published my book and I went through Ingram spark because I was like, Oh, this will be super easy. You upload it. They get it onto like book depository and Amazon and Barnes and noble libraries, like all of the places except Ingram spark and Amazon sometimes fight with each other. And so about the third day of my book launch, I had to put my launch on pause because it took about seven to 14 days for Amazon to deliver my book. So I was about, so third day in, I was going to do like a testimonial email to my list and testimonial promotion. And I logged into Amazon to get some reviews. And then I saw that it was like a two week delay to get the book. And I was like, what is going on?

Michelle Mazur (26:38):
So first off IngramSpark has terrible customer support. So never use them, just use Amazon. I mean, you can do a hybrid model of using both, which I would recommend because it's nice to get it on Barnes and noble and all the other places. But they have terrible customer support. And so we had to pause, literally pause the book launch, and then get it uploaded to Amazon. And there was some drama because Ingram spark told me I'd have to get a whole new ISBM number, blah, blah, blah. I call Amazon. Amazon is like, no, that's totally a lie. We'll just, you know, if you upload it with us, we'll just transfer it over. It's not a big deal, but then we had some fun outing issues. It was, yeah. So it ended up being like, like a three or four day pause of the book launch because of distribution issues. Yeah.

Melissa Anzman (27:34):
No, I it's, it's a good lesson and it's painful. Right. And like the irony here is Michelle and I talked about it while she was going through it. I used to work in book publishing. And so we were just sort of talking about it. I was like, Oh girl, I'm sorry. I wish you would have asked me, like would have helped, like this happens all the time. You've got this. It's super easy to fix. Just have to be patient. The irony here is in my book launch. So my book launched March 11th of this year of 2020, which was exactly, I don't know, five days before the entire world shut. And Amazon stopped printing books. So, well, I didn't have a Ingram spark situation. I still have a print delay. And so it's very much about being agile and changing. So for me, that meant going to a Kindle version of having an electronic version. And I know that that's something that you've recently. Yeah,

Michelle Mazur (28:32):
Yeah. Yeah. Because one of the things about the decisions I made when I originally launched my book is because the three word rebellion book is very interactive. There are like activities throughout. Like it is a book that is meant to be used to be written in like there's even a note at the beginning of the book about like, please write in this book, like we want you to book and I want you to write niche, like throw wine all over it to like, like use the book. Yes. And so when Amazon stopped printing books because of COVID-19, I was like, Oh, nobody's getting this book anymore. What am I going to do? So I pivoted to a Kindle version and created like a 57 page workbook that you can get what the Kindle version now. So yeah, so that just became available like at the beginning of April, like April 8th or something, you have 2020. So yeah. So that was a new pivot, which meant I got to really launch the book.

Melissa Anzman (29:39):
Exactly. Exactly. So the book is like one of those things that keeps on giving, if you work it, if you keep launching it, if you keep sort of adjusting, it definitely can. Okay. So we know that Ingram spark was not the way to go. So we w you got over that hump, you were able to fix it. What was like another challenge of maybe a sales challenge or a marketing challenge that you encountered, whether you thought you were going to do it, or like hit against it or not like, what was one of those things that you're like, this is really hard. Like I just have to work through it.

Michelle Mazur (30:13):
Yeah. I think it's just figuring out all the different ways that longterm play of, how am I going to keep marketing this thing? Because for you, it's personally a mindset issue because it gets really boring because you feel like, Oh my gosh, hasn't everyone heard about this book by now? Like everyone on my list. I mean, how much do I have to talk about this thing? And there is this mindset block. I'm like, Oh, everybody who's bought this book has bought it by now. Like, I'm just going to stop because nobody needs to hear about it. And like figuring out new ways to market it, new ways to talk about it, how to repurpose the content in the book. Like that is always my biggest challenge around like how to keep the sales going. One of the things I have done is learned to Amazon ads because it is a good way to generate sales, to get new eyeballs on the book. Like people are on Amazon buying books, although don't run Amazon ads when they stopped printing books, because it's a great way to waste money as I found out. Yeah. As we all know, but I feel like that's always one of my ongoing challenges is how can I create new buzz around the book? Because it is like it's a long term play. And I looked at people like, you know, like I look at Mel Robbins and she's still promoting the five second rule. And that sucker has been out for ages now. And like, she just released it with a new cover.

Melissa Anzman (31:58):
It's so true. You know? I think it was you who taught me that some of the biggest, no names out there Bernay Brown, Mel Robbins Simon Sinek, like let's use those examples. Like they are super committed to their message when they're promoting their book and they do not speak about anything else except for their book and their books message. Even at two years later, even though they had success in a prior book, like they are on message and brand of what they're doing, and that is the commitment to their book. Like, and it's sounds like you took that same approach with the three word rebellion. Yeah.

Michelle Mazur (32:36):
Yeah. And I mean, I even think like Simon Sinek celebrating the 10 year anniversary of start with why. And so he's doing a update of the book. And so like, he's doing, I think like a wive book called version or something over on YouTube. I mean, I mean that thing's 10 years old and yes, he's written other books in between now and then, but look, he's revisiting it and coming back to it and like start with why has its whole life of its own at this point in time, like it is done with a three word rebellion should do and has become like it's its own entity in the world, but he's still going back to it and he's going to revise it. So, or I even saw like James clear did something with atomic habits where like a year later he released a secret chapter of the book. Yeah. And I was like, Ooh, that's a clever idea. Because like I had new Epiphanes about the three word rebellion. I'm like, Oh, maybe I need to release the secret chapter later. Like write a new chapter of the book and release it. And then when I update the book and a year or so after the election, I'm like, yep. All is like, think about like, Oh, what can I add to the book? How can I bonus people, something new to keep it going? Because I know when people read the book, it drives my business

Melissa Anzman (33:59):
And it changes their business. I think, you know, that being so adamant and certain in your message to help others with their message, I think continuous sales, right. Because they don't only want the three word rebellion, but then they see how it changed their business. They want to work with you.

Michelle Mazur (34:22):
Yeah. Well, I'm, you know, the thing I know is that when I see when business owners really commit to a message, their business gets known for something. I mean, sometimes even when the message isn't that great, their business can get known for something. I mean, I hate to say it like, yes, you w you want to be known for a good message, but it's like, when you're all over the place or you're a moving target, I mean, even when somebody is known for a solution based message and you get there first, like somebody who's known for Instagram, like I think about like Sue B Zimmerman, like she's known for it. Right? Like she has something she is known for. And unless you're there first or nearly first, like, then you can have that luxury. But if you're not there nearly first, then you have to create that, that positioning, that message that you can be uniquely known for, and then don't give up on it because it can take years. Like one of the stories I love that Simon Sinek tiles is that, you know, and he started off with, start with why it wasn't like he got the Ted talk and was instantly famous. He started off with that, like doing a hundred, hundred dollars start with why sessions in people's living rooms in Seattle, Washington. That's how it started it. Wasn't like, Oh, I have this idea now I'm instantly famous. Like, that's not how any of this work.

Melissa Anzman (35:48):
Right. That's not how it ever works. People. Yeah.

Michelle Mazur (35:52):
No. So get that out of your head.

Melissa Anzman (35:55):
I have yet to see that be a process.

Michelle Mazur (35:59):
No, no, but I think that's like, people have this idea of like, Oh, I'll get my message. And then I'll be like, Oh, I'm going to fall into place. I was like, yes. In another two to 10 years.

Melissa Anzman (36:11):
Right. Like just, just be patient with that. Don't don't mind us over here. So with that, like one last question before I get to the advice section. So for your book launch for the three word rebellion and the ongoing launches that you've had in between since then, have you achieved the results that you set out to do and what really were they?

Michelle Mazur (36:35):
Yeah, so the initial results. So I still have this big goal of selling like 5,000 copies of the book. So I'm probably, I don't know, probably like around 1500 to 1700 copies sold, which isn't terribly bad for being a year out.

Melissa Anzman (36:54):
Not at all. In fact, like I would say that's tracking really great if you read Tim Grahl stuff, like your first 1000 copies, super big accomplishment.

Michelle Mazur (37:05):
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because like, for the launch itself, my goal was like to make my investment back. And I did that between like the clients that I booked from the book launch and like the initial sales itself, like I made the money back on the book and then probably doubled that within the first couple of weeks of the book launch. So that was like one of the main goals. Cause the book was an investment, like the design and the promotion and all of that. Like it costs some money to make a beautifully beautiful book and get it well produced and all of that. So that goal was definitely accomplished, but yeah, I still have a big goal of like selling 5,000 copies. And then for me, it's just that let's keep it out there, keep promoting it. I'm, you know, ongoing for me, I do want to have more of like an agency style business around the three word rebellion where it's more than just me creating three word rebellions or I can still be the one creating three word rebellions, but maybe I have other people doing the messaging around the three rubber band because that's the one thing I haven't been able to systematize in the business.

Michelle Mazur (38:20):
Like I created systems around every other piece of messaging, but every time I'm like working with a client, I'm like, okay, I'm going to document how I do this. It's like, I can't figure out how to document

Melissa Anzman (38:32):
Every time you are a unique, special,

Michelle Mazur (38:36):
I know I'm all like, Oh, but I can train people how to do the other things and then look for the qualities and the people I hire, who I think could be able to do it.

Melissa Anzman (38:44):
Yeah. Awesome. I love that. I love that you still have big dreams and goals for the book and your, you know, movement and then that you've also accomplished so much since you've launched it. It's so great to hear. So what advice would you have for somebody else who's trying to launch in a similar space, whether it be launching their book or their movement or their own three word rebellion, what advice would you have for them?

Michelle Mazur (39:13):
Yeah, I would say number one would be experiment early. Like one of the things I did when I first discovered the three word rebellion was, I was just like, okay, I think I have this new idea. I just wanted to see how people would react to it because I didn't know if it was going to be a thing. I didn't want to like write a book and then realize that, Oh, this is really stupid. And nobody likes like I experimented with my clients. I also wrote, rolled it out as a webinar. And it was just like, okay, I have this idea about how you can create a one of a kind message. What do you all think? So I put it out there. People came, they liked it. They gave me feedback. That was invaluable to me. I so appreciated that. So put it out in the world, look at it as like tiny little experiments for what you can do. That was huge. And then Nate, like, yes, writing a book is really important, but give yourself plenty of time to plan and promote the book for launch and realize that the day you launched the book is just the beginning. Right? Jock day one. That is like literally day one. I know you've probably worked on this thing for a year, year and a half, two years, but really that is the first step of the marathon of promoting this book.

Melissa Anzman (40:45):
I love it. Such good advice. Thanks, Michelle. So how can people find you online?

Michelle Mazur (40:51):
Yeah. So you can find me online. I'm dr. Michelle mazer.com is my website. And you can find more out about the book@threewrbook.com. And if you want to connect with me and chat with me, you can find me on Instagram as the best place to connect with me. I'm at dr. Michelle Mazur.

Melissa Anzman (41:10):
Awesome. Thank you. And we'll be sure to include all those links in the show notes. Michelle, it's been so fun having you on the podcast and learning all the ins and outs about your 3 word 0rebellion launch and ongoing launches and all the details behind it. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing with us today. Thank you for having me Melissa, to join the free launch yourself, where you'll

Melissa Anzman (41:34):
Learn, why your digital products aren't selling nearly as much as you planned for and how to diversify and scale your income by launching the right way. Texts, launchyourself, all

Melissa Anzman (41:44):
One word 24422.