LY Podcast: Ep. 40: Selling a Hybrid Program As You Build It with Andréa Jones

Melissa Anzman (00:00): This is the launch yourself podcast episode number 40 with Andréa Jones. For more information and show notes, go to launchyourself.co/40.

Melissa Anzman (00:11): Welcome to the Launch Yourself podcast. My name is Melissa Anzman. I'm a bestselling author and the CEO of two businesses and employee experience company and launch yourself where I help entrepreneurs diversify and scale their business by launching digital products each week, you'll hear mind blowing interviews, where we peek behind the curtain of other people's launches, as well as actual tips and strategies that you can implement in your daily work life to create launches that actually make you money. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let's get started.

New Speaker (00:46): Today's guest on the podcast, is so amazing. Our conversation is awesome. You are going to learn a lot about her most recent launch. She shares everything that worked and didn't work, which you know, I love sharing here, but she gives you exact tactics and details for you to sort of take in and see and evaluate if it's going to work for you or how you can maybe tweak your current launch plan with this new information. Not only that Andréa Jones is awesome at social media. She's a social media marketing business owner, um, and you know, that's not my jam. And so I always get really, really excited when I can learn from someone who has a completely different skill set from me. And we go deep about that today as well, but it's really focused on her program hybrid course launch that she recently did as a beta. So more about Andréa Jones is a fiercely committed to helping businesses in podcasters build profitable online communities through simple social media solutions.

Melissa Anzman (01:51): She's the host of an awesome podcast called the Savvy Social Podcast. She's the creator of the Savvy Social School, a digital platform designed to teach it's 100 class members, predominantly small business owners, how to implement organic social media strategies and has been named one of social reports, top marketers to follow. She is the real deal. She shares so much brilliance in this episode. I can't wait for us to dive in now. Thank you so much for being on the show. Andréa, I'm so excited to get this opportunity to meet you and chat with you live after following you online. That sounds a little creepy, but this is the world we live in for some time. So thank you so much for being on the show. I am so happy to be here and we just kind of have to get past like the online creepiness a little bit, cause this is, you know, 2020, this is the world we live in now, right? So I'm dating myself like I do in every episode of like how I'm still saying it's creepy to be online. It's not. So anyway, if you don't follow Andréa online, you will, after this episode. And we're going to talk all about that little later, but Andréa, if you could, could you share a little bit more about your business and what it is that you do?

Andréa Jones (03:04): Yeah, sure. So I'm a social media strategist and I work in a number of ways. The first and primary business model that I have is actually done for you services. Um, so clients who are usually passionate entrepreneurs, business owners, they produce a lot of content. They really don't want to be on Instagram or Twitter or LinkedIn or whatever the case may be. So my team and I take over their social media for them, help them build their business. Um, that's the biggest piece, but it's kind of like silently running in the background. Um, so where a publicly, I spend a lot of time marketing promoting myself is with the savvy social school, which is a membership site for business owners, entrepreneurs, content, creators, who want to understand the how and why of social media. They want to create strategies that work for them. And we take a really mindful approach to building out a social media strategy. So it's not overwhelming. Um, and then I also teach social media managers how to do it for their clients as well.

Melissa Anzman (04:02): I love it. And I need your help. So we can talk about that after, because I am not into the social media game. Like I am on it and I do it, but it's not natural to me. Right. Like I just talked about online creepiness. So that should have given you a flag right there. Um, but I love what you do and you do it so well. So I'm really glad you shared that. So with that, you know, here at Launch Yourself, we'd like to talk about a specific launch and go in depth about your product or the launch itself and what worked and what didn't work. So with that in mind, which launch would you like to chat about today, Andréa?

Andréa Jones (04:37): Yeah. So I mentioned that I work with social media managers. That's new, like it's a total new kind of like side of the business. And that's what I just recently launched, which was a 90 day program for social media managers, really teaching them the business of building a social media business, like everything from how to get clients, keep clients, make money, build out proposals, but then also like how do you post as your client without sounding like someone else and all of those good things.

Melissa Anzman (05:05): Awesome. So with it, is it like a program in that there's a course. Is there any coaching, like how is it structured?

Andréa Jones (05:14): Yeah. So it's part group coaching. There are one-on-one elements. Like everyone has got a one on one call with me. Um, and then there's group coaching weekly on Wednesdays. And then there is a course, but this is a beta round. So I'm building the course alongside the members. And a lot of it is based on what comes up in our group, coaching sessions every week.

Melissa Anzman (05:35): I love it. I love it. It's a model that I highly recommend, which is scary for a lot of people to do of sort of build it as you go, because you want to be sure you're giving value and a lots of good content and lessons, but you also aren't quite, it's not in the can yet. You're not quite sure what's going to come up. So it's great because your beta takers are getting exactly what they need

Melissa Anzman (05:58): Because you're able to deliver it just in time or close to that. So to speak, um, without having to create something that may not sell. So I love your approach to that. How like around the re like what's the range of how you are going to sell it when you go live for out of beta. Do you have an idea of what that price point is going to be?

Andréa Jones (06:18): I was just talking to my business coach about this. So when I launched it, it was $900, which is like an insane amount of value for this.

Andréa Jones (06:30): Um, it's ridiculous. Um, so I don't actually know the model. I'm, I'm debating between a membership model, which I love the membership model. Um, if it were a membership, it'd be like two 97 a month, probably with like a minimum of a six month commitment, something like that. Um, or it would just be another 90 day program, but that it would be probably around the $3,000 Mark. Yeah. I love it. I love it. You're playing with it and I love it. You're pushing yourself to price it appropriately, um, versus like what we all tend to do, especially for beta. I get it, like we're testing an idea out, but you're giving a lot of value. So I love that you're pushing it a little bit more into the realm of where it needs to be and a membership with a minimum super great idea, like super great idea, not something I see often and that two 97 spot I've seen a few times and I think you're adding a lot more value.

Melissa Anzman (07:24): So I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So with this launch, you just did it, you just did your beta share with me sort of what, what was the turning point for you that made you say, you know what, I'm going to try this. Like, was there a decision moment that made you launch right now? And then I want to get into like the tools and tack and your launch plan and all that GC stuff. Yeah. So I actually started this process earlier this year in March. Um, but then the pandemic half, it was insane. So I work with clients who have live events. And so I literally did not have time to run the program and manage like shifting all of my clients. Um, it was just an insane time in the business and I'm so thankful for my team for supporting me, but we literally just didn't have, like, I would have, it would have been an awful product if I did it right then.

Andréa Jones (08:22): Um, so I, I like paused everything right before we were going to like really pick up the lunch. So I pushed it back to now. Um, but I did offer for those people who were interested, they could pay early and get an extra one on one session. Um, and so I did have one person do that. Um, and talking with her, I kind of picked the August start time, um, based on her list, she was the only person who was like, yeah, well, we'll take this deal. Um, and so that really helped me set up the deadline for this. And I was getting super nervous because I have 12 mentees in the program. The rest of them came in like five days before the cart was panicking. Like this is not gonna work. I can't run this program with one person. Um, but it all worked out. It did.

Melissa Anzman (09:15): So share with me a little about like how you launched it, how you put it up for sale. And obviously the pounding moment of like, okay, Are there going to be enough people here? Cause we've all been to that. We've all created something where we're like, so wait, we got one or two people in here, is it going to actually convert? So how, what was your plan, your launch plan to sell this program?

Andréa Jones (09:36): Yeah, so I use a lot of social media and my podcast to launch this. So I did a series of podcast episodes. I also did a mini YouTube series around a specific tool. I use Airtable for managing all of my content, my client's content and, um, like reporting and all of that. So I did like a mini YouTube series around that. I created a lead magnet that like every, like directed to the mentorship. Um, and I did some Facebook ads to the lead magnet, the podcast and to the YouTube series. Um, and then I did a webinar and for the webinar, our, uh, it was more like a workshop actually.

Andréa Jones (10:15): Um, that was, uh, it was originally three days, but I did it to down to two days cause I like panicked. Didn't like remove the day. Um, but it was two days and it was like five days before the cart closed. Um, so that's what I was like, Oh my gosh, I don't even know if I want to do these, but it was a lot of fun. And I basically taught them like five of the things that I teach in the program. Um, and so I gave them like a little sample of what it was going to be like. And then I asked people to join on the webinar. And then I did like a followup sequence that was pretty intense. It was probably like 12 emails. Like it was like a lot of emails, um, really highlighting the value and like what people can get from the program. Um, yeah. And then lunch on August 5th.

Melissa Anzman (11:04): I love it. So with your webinars, did you have a lot of people who attended convert live?

Andréa Jones (11:11): Did you, was that really effective for you? No, actually, um, I think it was the price point, um, of the product. And also this was like, I literally started building this audience in March, so like I didn't have as many people in this segment of the audience. Um, but I did have like a live bonus for people to really encourage them. It was a welcome template, um, like a welcome kit, but in a template format. So you just put in your information and, um, nobody to join on the call, but I had a number of people email me after with questions and things. Um, and I, I think again of the price point, it's almost like they wanted like validation that a little bit more. Yeah. Just something, something a little extra, but no, nobody joined on the call, which is something that I wrote down in like my post-launch journaling session. I was like, this did not work. Why question? Okay. So I asked you that

Melissa Anzman (12:13): And not to be nosy, although we know I'm nosy, but because we talk a lot about different launches and different launch, um, guru plans and processes and webinar launches and is a funnel type of launch. It's a type and you know, we've had people on here who've done really well and people who haven't. And I like sharing that because it's part of your launch, but it didn't live and die on it. It wasn't the only thing that you did to sell it. And thank goodness. Right? Because you had a lot of different other things in place to support that tactic. So my guess is, since you didn't have any conversions from the webinar that you had a lot of conversions off of your emails that you sent out, as well as, um, those conversations are consults, whether they're email consults, or maybe you have done the phone, but was that where you converted your mentees?

Andréa Jones (13:05): Yeah, it was all emails. Every single person who joined emailed me first or sent me a direct message. I got a lot of like direct messages on Instagram. I mean, we're all social media people. So that made sense. Um, and I was able to like, like use the voice messaging feature. So it felt like I was talking to them. Um, and then the people who emailed me and ask questions, I sent them a video response back. So I didn't actually do one-on-one calls, but I added a personalization to it. And that's how people joined. I can't even think of a single person who just bought it, um, except for the very first person who joined. And she was like my inspiration for creating the program anyways. So we had talked about it.

Melissa Anzman (13:48): That's brilliant. And I really love that you're sharing this because I think personally what I've learned for my big or high ticket price programs is that a personalization is needed. They're investing a lot of money, especially a cold audience or a colder audience versus someone who's been following you for years and years and years, they need additional support, whether that's a live Q and a call, whether it's voice memos and DMS or consults, or what have you. It's just that reassurance of, let me get my own questions answered, make sure it's really right for me. And then as the seller, you're able to tap into their motivation of why it is right for them, or maybe it's not and help that buying decision. So I'm so happy you shared that because most people don't think that that's going to happen. And so they're unprepared for it. And yet, you know, we know that when we buy a high ticket offer, we want more information. We want the details. Right. So funny. So with your launch, I'd like to know what worked really well. What did you have planned out that you're like totally doing that again. Hotly hot tip. Yes.

Andréa Jones (14:59): So this is one thing that worked really well that I wasn't expecting, which was the emails. So I hired a copywriter for the first time and she suggested that I took some of the features of the program off of the sales page and introduce them via email as surprise bonuses, because it was kind of overwhelming on the sales page itself. Um, and it like, there's so much that's included in this program. I just put like everything in it.

Melissa Anzman (15:27): I would personally want more value, more value, right?

Andréa Jones (15:31): Yes. And even things like there's lots of templates and, um, like custom coaching calls. And she was like, you can just put that there are coaching calls and then introduce the idea of what is included in the emails. And that worked so well. There was pretty much a bonus every single day from the time of the first workshop until the, like the doors close to the program. And that's where I started seeing people come in. Um, so I'd have a conversation with someone like maybe an Instagram message. And then the second and other email went out with like, here's another bonus. That's when they signed up. So that worked really, really well. I was shocked. Cause when she outlined outlined the plan, I was like, this isn't going to work, but we're going to go for it. Cause you know, you gotta, you gotta try it to see what's going to happen. And it did. So I'm definitely doing that again.

Melissa Anzman (16:18): I love it. 12 emails seems like a lot and I know a lot of people that I work with are like, Ooh, I can't send that many emails. But when you look at the stats that not everyone opens every email, not everyone's getting the same thing for each email and for you, they convert it like, which is key. So it's not ever too many emails. I mean, unless you're emailing like five times a day, that's too many emails. But like when you're sharing more information and details about the program, it sounds.

Andréa Jones (16:49): Yeah. And we actually included an opportunity for people to not get any more sales emails about that program, which really helped as well, because my list is full of a variety of different businesses. And I did send emails like the majority of those went to most of my list. I said, if this doesn't relate to you, if you're not a social media manager, just click here and I won't bother you about this again. Um, so that really helps. So now I've actually segmenting my list in this process too.

Melissa Anzman (17:16): That's awesome. I do the same. Do you, which email provider do you use? I use convert kit. Okay. I do as well. And um, I found interestingly maybe different from your list. I had like two people opt out to the sales emails, last launch and I expected like a bunch of, and only two people are like, no, thank you. I'm like, okay, I'll send them to you then. Yeah, I had, I had,

Andréa Jones (17:41): Um, a bunch of unsubscribes, but not any higher than other sales type emails. Yeah. Um, and I did have a people Mark themselves, but I had people who went through the whole thing. And then in the last email was kind of like, thank you for letting me send you this many emails. Um, why didn't you join the program? I had some people go, I'm not a social media manager. And I was like, well, you could have opted out, but again right. People don't read everything. So here we are. That's great. Do you have anything else that from your launch plan work to really well? Um, I did a lot of followups on the last day. Um, there were some people who I ended up sending video to or sent voice messages to who, um, didn't buy. And so I sent them another followup which worked really well.

Andréa Jones (18:32): Actually I was surprised I at first was like, I don't want to bother these people. They probably already know that it's the last day. Um, but sometimes like one person in particular, she almost was like waiting for it. She was like, I was hoping you'd reach out to me. She needed that last reason I pushed her over the edge. Yeah, love it. And I think too, because there is so much hands on, um, kind of like structure to this particular program. It also showed that I was on her side. I was on her team and I'm really looking forward to her to succeed in this program. So it just kind of reemphasize the values of the program itself by using that personal touch to reach out to her again. Yeah. I think that's a really juicy tip that you probably didn't even intend, which is making sure that your launch plan and outreach plan really matches the program or product that you're selling.

Melissa Anzman (19:27): If you're selling high touch, which you are in this case, you, that buyer is into you if they want high touch. And so meeting them where they are is such a great idea to close the sale. So that's the fun stuff. Let's dig into the stuff that may not have worked so well. So we know that the webinars were not great for conversions, but probably great for teaching and maybe helping your SME. Um, but what else, you know, and if you want to go deeper on webinars by all means do, but what else didn't work as planned or as you hoped for, or maybe that was successful in previous launches that didn't convert for you this time?

Andréa Jones (20:06): Hmm. Yeah. And I think just to talk about the webinar, I think that because I'm marketing to marketers, like people in the business, they kind of knew what was up anyways. Um, and so I do think that definitely played a role. Um, and then the very first one that I did, I was actually nervous. So I kind of flubbed a few things and it didn't go as great. Um, the group was great, uh, but it didn't, it wasn't that great. Um, so when I sent out the replay I sent, I'll actually like the second class that we taught. Um, but the other thing that went like total flop in this launch is I spent so much time designing a quiz. I thought it would

Melissa Anzman (20:48): Be so fun to use a quiz funnel. And like I put all this money into ads for the quiz. I had like four people take the quiz and I was like, Oh my God, I spent so much time on this. Nobody wants to take this quiz. It's still there. I feel like I need to do something with it, but it failed so hard. Okay. I am giggling over here. Not because you had a failed quiz, but because this is like the third failed quiz I've heard about this week. Like for some, everyone, I don't know what happened, but I think like everyone said, everyone in quotes the gurus, right. Do a quiz or they put their own quiz up and we're like, well, great. Let's test it. Like all these online marketers let's do it. And I have yet to speak to someone who had a quiz convert and do well.

Melissa Anzman (21:35): It's the weirdest thing ever. And even those big name people, when they shared their results, it was like, yeah, we didn't really think it did well and they're doing it again. And I'm like, what I don't understand is this just cool? And I missing the bus on this, but yeah, like quizzes, I think are fun for the taker, but for a conversion thing, especially like adds to it. I just, I haven't found that working for anyone, even listeners, if you have a quiz that's converting, please reach out because we want to know why we want to dig into it. We want to pick it apart. So let's, you know, come be a guest on this show so we can do that. But I love that you shared that yours wasn't working because I have yet to hear of one that really did well. Yeah. And I it's the same thing I actually was like studying Amy Porterfield's quiz funnel.

Andréa Jones (22:26): Cause I was like, I think as marketers, we go, this is beautiful. We love it. It feels so nicely put together, you get a result, you get a PDF, you get a custom video. All of these elements to it that you can see took a lot of effort did not work for me.

Melissa Anzman (22:42): It didn't work for her either my friend. So she did a quiz. Um, so we're talking about Amy Porterfield. So she did a quiz last year for her second or maybe yeah, her second DCA launch digital course Academy. And she shared the results and it was like, not worth it, like just wasn't wasn't right. Didn't work. Didn't convert at the rate that everything else that she did. And she's like, ah, probably won't do it again in her launch debrief that she shared inside of momentum. And um, she's in the process of launching DCA right now.

Melissa Anzman (23:13): And she has a quiz back and I'm like so confused by this because she was like, didn't work. Not thank you. Like, so maybe some she's testing something new there, but um, yeah. So like in a quiz, just for all of you out there, it's very expensive. It's a lot of time. And I say, it's expensive. If you want to create like that personalized video and the PDF, like all the different things you don't have to do that. You don't have to create a bunch of money, but even just like the quiz software, if you use something like interact, it costs more money. So if, you know, test it, but don't get totally tied to your quiz. Cause I have yet to see one that converts particularly to like a high end product yeah. Lesson learned. Right. And you're like one less thing to do next launch.

Andréa Jones (23:58): Right? Exactly. I will not be doing a quiz. I may do something different, like a free mini course series. Cause like that would actually be less work than what I put into the Quip. Yes. Right. And you have all this content now through webinars that you can repurpose through the quiz that you can repurpose, which is always so great about a beta launch is you get so much stuff to repurpose and figure out how to plug it in and what worked and didn't and move forward from there. So I love that.

Melissa Anzman (24:28): So the big question, Andréa, what advice would you give to somebody who was thinking about creating a beta course membership group program? Like what advice would you give them to make it successful?

Andréa Jones (24:44): Yeah, so I hate launching, so I'll preface this. Like I, that's why I like memberships that are just ongoing, like come in when you want. I understand the value of a launch though. And what really worked for me too is to kind of work in advance. So like the copy for the emails, social posts. Cause I got so exhausted after I did the two workshops and Blake, before the cart close, I was supposed to do like live videos and things. I just didn't do them because I got tired of the launch. And so my advice would be to like do as much as you can before you like start the promotion process because it is like a little heavy can feel exhausting. There's a lot of emotions, both good and bad. Um, and so yeah. Give yourself some space, work ahead a little bit. And that will save you a ton of time.

Melissa Anzman (25:35): I love that. And I'm the same way when I launch, I get exhausted. I love launching. So we're a little different there, but I mean, I get more exhausted than I ever imagined and it's like, I know that I'm going to be.

Melissa Anzman (25:47): And so those small things that you think, Oh, I'll just do it in the moment it's so left behind. So I love the plan ahead and like really get it together before you open cart or before you even opened launch, like make sure you have all the things in advance done so that you just have to show up and do those things that you have to do live super great advice. So Andrea, where can people find you online? Yes. So I'm on Instagram right now, loving it. I'm at Online Drea. And if you follow me and send me a DM, I'd love to like connect with you via voice message. That would be fun. That's awesome. Great.

Melissa Anzman (26:23): We will do that. And we'll also put your website in all your other goodies in the show notes. So if you are listening, please head over to the show notes to learn more about Andréa is specially her awesomeness in social media marketing, which is really great by the way. Um, so please check that out and Andréa it's been so nice having you on the show. You've shared some really great details about your launch and I really appreciate your transparency and all the ticks and nuggets that you shared. So thank you. Well, thanks so much for having me. This has been fun.

Melissa Anzman (26:55): Join the free Launch Yourself workshop where you'll learn why your digital products aren't selling nearly as much as you planned for and how to diversify and scale your income by launching the right way. Text: launchyourself, all one word to: 44222.