Welcome to episode 45 of the Launch Yourself podcast.

In This Episode

In today’s episode, Megan Hamilton shares her path to entrepreneurship, stepping into showing up as who she is online, and relaunching after a launch-fail. She shares why she knew she needed to get super clear on who she serves and how she finds buyers for her course on social media—and everything in between.

We start by discussing how she discovered the need to serve women in a safe space to help them gain visibility and own their presence when she saw previous in-person cohorts not being willing to start real conversations. From that aha, she created a product and tried selling it… only to have her launch flop.

She shares what went wrong during her launch (and there were a few lessons she learned and fixed before relaunching) and how she goes about finding her clients online (mostly on Instagram). And it wasn’t the way she thought she would—being “professional” and using swipe files or caption files. It was only when she, herself, became more visible and spoke up for who she was, that she was able to create a course that now sells.

Resources Mentioned

Learn More About Megan Hamilton

Megan Hamilton is a speaking, visibility and confidence coach for women are ready to get out of their own way. Her classical theatre training combined with 25+ years of performance experience contributes to her coaching system and style. She’s developed several courses including Big Voices for Women and an upcoming course combining Tarot, intuition, shadow work, visibility and speaking.

Megan’s website: UBU Skills

Follow Megan online: Twitter, Instagram

Melissa Anzman (00:00): This is a Launch erself podcast, episode number 45 with Megan Hamilton. For more information and show notes, go to launch yourself.co/ 45. Welcome to the launch yourself podcast. My name is Melissa Anzman. I'm a bestselling author and the CEO of two businesses, an employee experience company, and launch yourself where I help entrepreneurs diversify and scale their business by launching digital products each week, you'll hear mindblowing interviews where we peek behind the curtain of other people's launches, as well as actual tips and strategies that you can implement in your daily work life to create launches that actually make you money. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let's get started. This episode is amazing. It's such a good episode. My guest this week is Megan Hamilton of UBU skills, and she is as speaking and visibility and confidence coach for women who are ready to get out of their own way.

Melissa Anzman (01:02): Her classical theater training combined with 25 plus years of performance experience contribute to her coaching cycles and system. She's developed several courses, including big voices for women and an upcoming course combining taro card intuition, shadow, work, visibility, and speaking. But that aside, what we go into in this episode is pure gold. We start out about how she decided to launch this course that she's going to talk about. We talk about the course that, or the launch that didn't really go as planned. We all may have had one or two of those in our back pocket, right? And then also really being who she is and putting a stake in the ground as to who she works best with and who her ideal client is and her desired outcome and results with always keeping an eye on creating a safe space for women in particular, to be more visible. So we walked through all of that, including what finally clicked to make her launch work and sell her course and everything in between. Let's dive in. Thank you so much for being on the show today, Megan, it is such a pleasure to have you.

Megan Hamilton (02:23): I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.

Melissa Anzman (02:25): So if you could give us a little bit of background about who you are and your business and what you do?

Megan Hamilton (02:30): Sure. So I am a speaking visibility and confidence coach for women. And I sort of started building my training based on my theater school background. So I'm a classically trained actor and then 25 years plus at this point of performance. So I was an actor for a while, and then I sort of, I got frustrated losing the ability to control my life. Like I was always depending on other people to hire me. And then it was always like about how I looked and everything just, it got a little bit too much. And so I left it and then I started writing my own stuff and that was really gratifying because I could control that. I could make things happen for myself and that felt great. Then I started writing music and then that turned into sort of where my direction lay for 10 or 15 years.

Megan Hamilton (03:28): So I made several records and I toured them. And so all of that sort of performance stuff just started really solidifying inside of me and how to work with an audience, how to get up there when you feel like garbage, how to, you know, just basically manage it all. And then a few years ago I started coaching students at a university where I was working. I pitched it to them. I was like, I really, I feel like I could put something together that would really help them. And they were like, totally. And then I launched this business fully about two or three years ago. And just in may of this year, I quit my, that university job. And this is what I've been doing. That's amazing. And it's something that like, first of all, I just want to say, it's really cool what you do and it's super needed out there, but also your background is so interesting.

Megan Hamilton (04:25): And also like the way you got to where you are is the quintessential entrepreneur story right. Of the winding road and taking left turns and moving on and then arriving to where you're at. Totally. And you're right, like it, and I don't know that it changes. So once you get on whatever trajectory you're on and I always think of it like today, this is where I'm at today because I've changed careers so many times in the course of my life, I am so into this right now and I haven't been for awhile. And I think I always will be, I think the gratifying piece of actually helping women find their voices, be able to speak up for themselves, be able to give a speech when they didn't think they ever could possibly get up in front of people to talk back to the office bully, you know, to have a different, difficult and confrontational conversation.

Megan Hamilton (05:20): I don't think that my gratification of serving that work is ever going to change, but I, I mean, I, I'm also open to the idea that I'm flexible, that the path I tend to take, it takes lots of different turns. And so as long as I can go with that and sort of go with the flow and I think, I don't know about you, but I feel like that's the theme for 2020, perhaps a little, I think we were all trying to fight it a little at the beginning, right? Yeah. I was like, no, no. And I had a really rough 20, 20 before. COVID like, even for me, like the first three months, I was like, Ooh. And I'm like, okay, all right, it's right. We need more greats coming. And then I was like, no, we're just going to go see ms. Kill COVID head.

Megan Hamilton (06:09): So I got it early. I was like, yeah, no, we're just going to have to take it as a comms, which have been such an interesting blessing in so many ways. Honestly, I've just sort of, okay, I don't have to resist around this and this option was here or taken away or open and, you know, you're right. Like just sort of being open is the year of 2020, but also entrepreneurship I would argue. Right. Totally. And so, you know, even when it came to, so my, at the beginning of my year was bonkers. It wasn't like sad bonkers, but I had already a line myself up for working full time. I had accepted a job teaching at our college. I had already signed up to take this 12 week business course. And on top of that, we got a dog in February and like a bunch of stuff.

Megan Hamilton (06:59): And my son, someone in our family was, was gravely ill. So like already packed. Right. Yeah. And then, then this, and you're just like, okay, well what can I drop? Cause I probably should drop something. And I was like, I can't like, there's so many things that I can't control, but like I can't just stop teaching a college course. You know, I can't stop taking this course that I've paid a lot of money to take. So it was just like, well, how am I going to make it work? Cause I have to make it work. And then even then like my goal all along had been to leave my job, but who does that? Who leaves pretty well paying university gig union, like all the things benefits who does that, who leaves that like, that's me. That was me. You know, I had my reasons for leaving, like beyond just because it was a goal.

Megan Hamilton (07:56): I mean, if it had made sense to stay, then, then I might've done that. But, but it actually just, it just seemed like everything was sort of like, Nope, you're good. It's time to go out. And because we have been learning that, Hey, we really actually don't have control over anything. Nothing, nothing. It's so true. And you, but like it doesn't, it just doesn't. You have to be flexible. Totally. So with that in mind, I'd love to know which launch you'd like to talk about in today's podcast. Sure. I was, I want to talk to you about how I got a course that I run called big voices for women off the ground, out of my head and into the world. I love it. I love the name. I just love it. I love it. Yeah. I like it too. It is helpful. I know what it's about just from the name. And also I love that your approach and this, if you disagree with me, it's okay. But I love that your approach. Isn't girl boss, boss babes.

Melissa Anzman (08:56): It's women, voices for women. Like that is a powerful, what we should be referring to herself. Like I love the empowerment behind you

Megan Hamilton (09:06): Course name. Yeah. Thank you. Very specifically. Use the word women. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I, and I, you know, that's, I I'm, I also like use that word in life. Like every once in a while with my girlfriends will say girls or something, but yeah, no, I'm very, I'm big on let's let's use proper language here. Let's make sure that we're not diminishing our presence

Melissa Anzman (09:32): A man. Okay. So tell me all about this course. Tell me that, like the idea, how you got the idea for it, how you put it together, what does it look like? I'd like to know all the deets about it.

Megan Hamilton (09:43): Sure. So early on, when I started coaching and I used to call it public speaking coaching, cause that sort of made sense and it, and, and I worked with men and women and I found that how I was talking about what I did. And so whether it was on social media or, you know, to my newsletter, I thought I just needed to be very professional because this was a professional business that I was making. And I wanted to, you know, I didn't, I wanted to speak to everybody and I wanted everyone to feel like they could speak up and speak out and do things that were hard. But what I was starting to realize, as I, you know, had more clients was I, I, I just really enjoyed working with women and it was a whole other ball game than it was with working with men.

Megan Hamilton (10:43): And that is not to say that I, that I didn't love the men that I worked with because I do. And I still work with men men who are comfortable enough to, to work with me after, you know, pretty much all of my marketing is towards women, but I do a lot of group workshops too. It just, this seemed to be such a huge need and women were feeling so it was harder for a woman to sign up, to work with me. There's so much extra stuff involved. And what I realized was when I was doing the group workshops, there's a lot of stuff that was not getting said. So we'd be talking about why it's difficult to speak up in a work meeting. We'd be talking about, you know having a complicated conversation with your boss or, and I could tell, cause I looked around and I was thinking about some similar situations with myself.

Megan Hamilton (11:39): I knew that all the women were not saying the stuff that we all know, and it occurred to me that I needed to make a course just for women so that we didn't even have to do the explanation of, yeah, it's fucking terrifying to walk into a boardroom full of men and feel that vibe and make your pitch or have to make your presentation. And the reason it's terrifying is because there's still so many societal expectations and differences and biases, and we are trained to not believe that what we are feeling is actually happening. And so when you walk into a room and you feel uncomfortable and you feel like people are sort of like looking at you sideways or with a side eye, like that's actually happening. And whether they know it or not, there's going to be a few people there that are doing that.

Megan Hamilton (12:38): And so I just wanted to eliminate the conversation of having men say that doesn't happen. This doesn't happen anymore. Like maybe 50 years ago, I wanted to eliminate all of that. And all of us start at the point where we totally get that we're dealing with different pressures. And that to me was so exciting and felt so powerful and like something really needed. And so that was the instigator for the course. And so, yeah, so, so, okay. So we know the beginnings of it and I love that because it's so true and the explanations, and I think we've learned this year in 2020, how much how many blind spots we all have, right? Like I've just truly how many blind spots we have of other people's experiences across the board. And so I'm glad that you saw that even earlier and recognize that there was, there was one for this group of women that you serve.

Megan Hamilton (13:34): So the course itself, like how, how long is it? What, like what's the components, what's the makeup of the course. Sure. So we meet for four weeks, two hours a week usually in the evening. And I go over my basic sort of speaking teaching, which is standing, breathing, speaking, and reading. And so each of those four has its own special training and combined, they give you all the tools that you need to start to put yourself out there more to raise your hand at the, at the office meeting to say yes to a speech to have a difficult conversation, to speak up for yourself. If somebody is interrupting you to say, Hey, you're interrupting me. So could you stop that? Something like that. And we look at it through the lens of being a woman. And so anything goes in terms of when we start talking about our own experiences and there's a lot of opportunity for sharing stories and for really digging into where did these fears come from?

Megan Hamilton (14:40): What, you know, let's go back even further. And so, you know, we've had situations where we wouldn't have talked about, you know, they hear their ex boyfriend in their head and telling them their voice sounds terrible and they can't get that out of their head. And then they can't sort of get past that. So it is a four week intensive, essentially like a speaking workshop where by the end of it, you submit a film or a, or you do it live and you do a presentation and, and that's it. And then we, you know, we, we we move on with our lives after that.

Melissa Anzman (15:14): Awesome. What's the price point for your course? It's $600. Okay. For four weeks. So that's pretty inexpensive for such one on one work. So it's a, it's an easy buy so to speak for those women who really need that support, which is awesome. Now, how do you launch it? How are you getting people to buy it?

Megan Hamilton (15:33): Well, I had a few trial and errors because every time I talk about it, everyone's like totally I to take that this sounds like the best thing ever. And when I launched it the first time it was, I launch it for September, I guess, of 2018 and nothing.

Melissa Anzman (15:56): How did you launch it? Like what, what did you do that got you some crickets.

Megan Hamilton (16:00): I started to talk about it in my newsletter. I started to sort of hint at it in social media, but I was really afraid of bugging people. And so the day that I launched it like through my newsletter, I was like pumped. I was like, here we go. This is it. I finally, you know, I had it, it had, it had been in my mind for so long. And then I had finally sort of put it together and like, I launched it and like one person signed up and that was like, Oh, great. Okay, here we go. Like right after that, I got one. It was also it was only $300. The first time I launched it,

Melissa Anzman (16:40): Like truly, right. Like your thought was probably like, you know, $300 for this great value. I've never sold it to anything on this list. They're really going to support me. Yeah. And you got one sale

Megan Hamilton (16:53): Men. And I was like, okay. So, you know, people are waiting for Friday when they get paid or whatever, and nothing. And I think like I waited a week and put it up again, maybe in an Instagram and sent another newsletter, reminding people like at the bottom of say my, my weekly blog or something like that and nothing again. And then I did like, then I was like, okay, well now people are going to wait til the end, like the last week before. So I had launched it two months before. Wow. It would be four years. Yeah. And so then I waited and then I waited for the last week. And then I think I maybe posted either once a day or once every two days. Cause again, I didn't want to bug people and yeah, I had to call that one person and say, Hey this isn't going to happen, but I'd love to offer you like a coaching session instead. And she was totally into that. And it was sad because she had really wanted to take the course. So then I got really sad and disheartened and disappointed and left it. I was like, I can't touch this right now. I'm too close to it because it was, it was like a, it was a topic that's so close to my heart. And I was like, nobody likes me. I, you know, I oversold it. I was in people's faces too much. Yeah.

Melissa Anzman (18:26): Pause there because I actually want to address this because this is something that happens all the time. And I, I mean, I always talk about, it happened to me, you know, like I've had failed launches. I, my first launch, I sold one or two courses. I can't even remember. I'm so burned by it. Right. Like it was one of those things that I have told him.

Megan Hamilton (18:47): Yeah. It makes sense. But I know it was bad.

Melissa Anzman (18:50): And the thing is, is two things I want to address first is as women. So not that men don't have this as well. So I will say that, but what I have seen mostly in women is we're scared of selling. Right. We're scared of wall. We're scared of making the ass. And I think for me as I, cause I was the same way, I am still the same day in way. Like I hate to even say that because I have gotten better at it, but it's still every time I'm like, Oh, should I send the email? I'm asking for an email. Right? Like I still get that way. And it comes down to the same thing that you are teaching your people. How, like, what were we taught? How were we programmed to be that way? Cause it's the same day in conversation. So same thing.

Melissa Anzman (19:41): So don't be afraid to sell because you're, you know, I said this to my sister and she literally had like, she started crying with goosebumps to me when I said, and I'm good at, I'm good at sharing this with others, but perhaps not practicing it. Right. Which is what would a guy do? A guy wouldn't even think twice. He just say, I have this thing for sale. Buy it, dude. Right. And so we have to sort of think that through the second thing I want to address, which I think is so relatable and, and truly, I mean, I interrupted you because it was so relatable, which is when you have a failed launch, when you have a launch that doesn't go as planned, it is horrifying. Right? Like it is so upsetting. It is so personal. You feel, instead of being like, I positioned it incorrectly or the markets didn't hear me or my transformation wasn't clear, or my sales page didn't convert. It is people don't like me. They're not going to buy me, buy from me. And furthermore, if you're like me, you're going to say, why do all these other people do so well? And I can't, and my product's better. Right. So you do get

Megan Hamilton (20:48): Into a font and I appreciate that.

Melissa Anzman (20:50): Is that because it's true. It happens. Yeah.

Megan Hamilton (20:54): It was, it was, yeah, exactly. It was, it was very devastating and disheartening and I mean, I was sort of excited that one person bought it, but then I was like, but yeah. And so, and so when it finally launched for real in may of this year,

Melissa Anzman (21:19): Well tell me how you picked me of this year. How did may of this year happen after leaving it for about two years? Like how did you come back and feel ready to try again?

Megan Hamilton (21:30): Well, part of it was that I had been I had been taking this course and so I had started to work with Jenny. She she's she's a business coach. I started to work with her principals and then I was taking her course starting in February. And I had been building my email list pretty steadily and sort of regularly posting about it. And at some point when I transitioned myself from a public speaking coach to a speaking visibility and confidence coach, the visibility piece was like, don't be afraid to show up everybody, except for me, like, why the fuck would I care? Some like letting people know about this amazing course I have every day, of course, I'm going to tell every day, cause you know, like other companies are, I don't even have a choice. They're sponsoring ads that are like, like seven times a day. If you're a small business owner and you're a woman, you are, we're all getting that same woman who is telling us about her course and how she did it and how to do a launch. And we're getting the girl boss stuff that, you know, that you were talking about before, we're getting all that same stuff. And like the reason those people are doing so well is because they let people know about themselves.

Melissa Anzman (22:49): Right. They are actually being visible.

Megan Hamilton (22:52): They're being visible, which is the thing that we're like, I'm trying to tell other people to do. And so I just started and I think also you have to have that one under your belt and you have to come back from it to know that it's fine. And you know what else nobody will remember. And nobody cares. So even since then, I mean every once in a while I'll launch like a, like a mini session or something. And if I don't get enough uptake, I just don't do it. And I don't care about it. And I also marked down, okay. So September is not a good time for people and that's fine. So now I know that that's like information I have from when I want to build stuff the next time I just get on with my life. And I don't, I think it's also, I don't take it personally.

Megan Hamilton (23:38): And so that, that is one of the biggest lessons is it's basically, you know, people say this all the time and it's so, but it's getting out of your own way because you're going to, nobody's stopping you try again, literally, no one's stopping you except for yourself and how you have internalized this as being, you are bad at what you do. And so there's some mindset work to have on that part. And there's also, like I said, the experience of, I can just leave this if it doesn't work and that's okay. And I will try to why like all the different pieces of why it didn't work and then move on, do it better. Exactly. Or, you know, for me, it's, I am very much a tester. Like I like experimenting. I like testing. I like knowing, you know, different things. I mean, I love launching, so I'll try a whole bunch of different launches.

Megan Hamilton (24:32): And I have found that if I really think of every launch as a test, as an experiment with certain outcomes, I want to test, I'm able to do it because it's not about me. It's about the outcome, right? It's about what am I going to learn? What, what interesting nuggets type of stuff. So I love that now for this launch you in may of this year 2020, you decided to be visible. So tell me what you did to launch this program because this time it worked, so how did you go about launching it? So I think whenever I decided on the date, and again, as I mentioned before, I had a lot going on at this particular, like from January going forward and then pandemic. Well, that was the other thing, like, like I had booked a space, like had done all that and then I had to move at virtual and I was really worried.

Megan Hamilton (25:27): People wouldn't come and everybody was still gay. So that was awesome. But what I did differently was I started using video in my stories right on into people on Instagram. Instagram for me, seems to be the place where I build the most relationships I get to actually like converse with people. There's like DMS. I can be myself. If I have a really good idea, I just, you know, get on and record myself, talking about the idea. People get to know me in a sort of meaningful way, as opposed to whatever marketing materials I'm putting out there. And it just seems to be a really helpful thing. And I started posting every single Facebook group that I belong to. And so I belong to a ton of local women in business groups, national women in business groups, international women in business groups and different places that I sort of hang out and chat with.

Megan Hamilton (26:28): People try to solve problems. I just started posting it everywhere. And, you know and that, that actually got a few people that that it didn't, you know, he, it's almost like sending when you're like, I didn't even know them. They'd never heard of me before they bought it. And my newsletter. And so, you know, I've been cultivating a relationship with, with people, my newsletter now for a while. And I made a point now I post, I send a newsletter every week and I write a new blog post every week and it's got something in it to help people with speaking visibility and confidence. And I built a relationship that way. And so, yeah, so I had some some sales from that. I did some Instagram ads and I don't know. Yeah. I don't know that they sold directly, but I think that getting in front of people and so, you know that, what is it?

Megan Hamilton (27:25): Six or seven. Yeah. And so they see you and then they're like, huh, I keep seeing this, this woman, I got to go back and like, check out what she's all about, where those retargeting ads like. So people who either went to your site or are already followers of yours or were they just more cold ads? So when I, when I, when my target is always like, I like to get people who already follow me, although sometimes I don't, sometimes I untick that. So that it's actually just for new people and sort of reaching outward. So within my age range usually specify women and a couple other factors feminism, I think is usually one that I like that usually aligns well. And I'm speaking public speaking visibility. Yeah. I love that. Okay. So one more nerd question, and then I'll let you finish.

Megan Hamilton (28:18): I promise, which is, do you do your Instagram ads in Instagram or do you do them through Facebook admin ads manager? I did it through Instagram. Okay. I love that Facebook. I do. And you know, it's something that I've been trying to test a little, I don't do a bunch of Instagram ads, but I have a feeling that Instagram ads work better from Instagram, even though it's a little harder for an ad manager to, to figure out how to manage it. So I'm happy that you said that because I think it, I think it's warrant a test. If it, if it did decently for you and you were able to do it. Cause that's the other thing it's like, how do we figure it out type of thing, but yeah, if you do it through Instagram, I think that's awesome. So that's something we'll add to our testing list going forward.

Megan Hamilton (29:07): I love it. Yeah. Try it out. I mean, I like it, it just it's it's it was pretty, it's pretty user friendly. I've I've used it a few times. I don't, I won't spend very much money. Like I'm feeling like I'm pretty frugal, so I'm like, I'm gonna cap at $30. And if I get a sale from that that's $30 worth spent. Or just, you know, new followers or even just to gain momentum. Cause I find when I've got an ad going, Instagram seems to put me in front of more bodies cause they want your ad. They want you to spend more

Melissa Anzman (29:42): Money. So it makes sense. It's a little different than Facebook that way. But I mean, it totally makes sense. So I'm super, I'm super glad we nerded out on that for a minute. Cause I love me some Instagram. I love it. I do too. I'm I'm not on, I'm a, I am a consumer on Instagram, but I don't post a lot there I'd like to, but I just don't know what to, I overthink the Instagram posting situation. So I'm working on it. I'm working on it.

Megan Hamilton (30:11): Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa Anzman (30:14): Okay. So this launch works. So I'd love for you to just share with me one of the things like your one nugget of advice that people who are looking to launch a course that they should do. And then I'm going to ask you what hopefully did not work. So I'd like the thing that was like so amazing that you're going to give the advice and then

Megan Hamilton (30:35): What totally failed. So this is not the answer anyone's gonna want, but it is a hundred percent the truth. You just need to be absolutely yourself and you need to let people know what they're in for. Especially if this is a, like a a lead course where I'm in front of you and I'm teaching you, you need to know what I'm like. And so I need to get over myself and be myself in front of you so that the right people are coming to me. And so it's that authenticity reason. Like I'm tired of the word authentic, but it's still so true. You have to get over yourself so that you can be yourself and people go. I want to learn from that woman, that is the woman who was going to give me all the goods that I need. She's going to be real with me.

Megan Hamilton (31:24): And she's going to tell me what I need to hear. She's not going to, you know, like just tell me what I want to hear. And so I think that was part of it. I started showing up more and, and I, I was myself. I was, I was careful about what I was putting out there. I thought ahead of time, what, you know, when you get people they're like, Hey, I just wanted to pop on today and talk about the sun because it's so pretty. It's not the same as being authentic. Right? Like prepared and authentic. I had to talk about things that people wanted to hear about. Not necessarily what I was thinking in the moment.

Melissa Anzman (32:07): That's so interesting. And I think so I'm glad that that was your tip because yes, we're all sick of the authenticity word, but that being said, it's hard to do. And especially for certain audience

Megan Hamilton (32:18): Really hard to do really hard to do and really hard as women. Yes. And we have here so many filters, so many, so many damn filters and pressure. Right?

Melissa Anzman (32:30): I do want to say that one thing that we have to become okay, with particularly as women is you're not for, and everybody's not for you. And so when you say show up is yourself. Like I hear that and feel that because one of the things I often say, particularly when I'm hiring somebody for my team is I'm not for everybody. I'm not going to, you're not going to like me as a boss. If you want to be managed X, Y, and Z way. And like, just knowing that now has gotten such better quality of candidates and probably enrollees. If I have a course, if I took that approach because you're being authentic. And I think your, your advice here so great that you want people who want to be in your course because of you and who you are, you don't want to have to feel the pressure of being perfect or looking and acting like another guru in order to make us out and keep that customer for life. So great advice. So totally share with me what absolutely did not work for you that you're like, yeah. I'm probably not going to go down that route again.

Megan Hamilton (33:36): What did not work for me was the opposite. And I know that's, it's frustrating. Cause you're like, tell me the thing that I should do. And I'm like, it's just be yourself. So anytime that I was not myself, that I was trying to use somebody else's language to sell that I was, you know, like basically swapping out words with my own, it did not work. It landed really badly. There was like no interaction. People didn't, you know, like, cause people see that they're like, what, what the hell is this? This is not, I follow you because like, you'll easily say shit or, you know, you'll be super real with me, but this is like a, this feels yucky. And like you're selling to me. And so then I was like, Oh right. Like what works for other people? This isn't is not gonna necessarily work here. And so I just have to keep going back to, yeah, you're not going to be able to hide behind this professional demeanor that you feel like you've created, but everybody else can see through it. Anyway, you just have to be yourself. And sometimes that feels really hard cause you're feeling vulnerable and you're having like a tough time and you just want to hide behind some veneer of perfection or what you think is perfection. And literally everybody knows that's not true. And so what doesn't work is when I try to fit into somebody else's mold.

Melissa Anzman (35:06): Oh my God. I love that answer. Even though I know it's a little bit of a cop out, but I know, but here's the, here's how I can translate it to the people I work with. So a lot of times when people come in and join my digital product sales accelerator, they have a course and they're like, it won't sell and I don't know why it won't sell. And I'm like, well, tell me how, how you're, how you're working on this. And they're like, well, I use this template from this guru. And I use this process from that guru and I bought the email swipe file from this. And I'm like, so you're not you. You're not saying anything in a way that feels like you or different or unique. And so the plugin play doesn't work. It truly does. It gives you listen, it's great for ideas.

Melissa Anzman (35:49): I'm not going to knock all that stuff. It's great for ideas and approaches and maybe systems or processes and stuff. But when it comes to selling, when it comes to showing up and creating relationships with your future customers, you have to show up as you, or it's never going to convert. It's been, you're going to get, or you're not going to get the people you want to work with. And you're going to be a hundred because you're dealing with like people who yeah, just that they're not your people. They're not your people. I love that people. Oh, Megan, I've had such a good conversation with you today. I think there's so much that the listeners have learned just by hearing you and understanding what you do in your approach and all the tips that you've given, which maybe things we've heard before in some instances, but like we need a reminder about it because it's not easy to do.

Melissa Anzman (36:40): It's not easy to show up and be that way. So with that, where can people find you online?

Megan Hamilton (36:46): My website is www dot UBU skills. And this letters you be you from the words UBU. So I'm helping you be you and same with Instagram, Facebook and Twitter, it's all black slash UBU skills. Love that. And we'll be sure to include all the links in the show notes. It has been such a pleasure having you on the show. Megan, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. It was really fun to talk about this stuff and, and yeah, it was really good to talk to you to.

Melissa Anzman (37:16): To join the free Launch Yourself workshop, where you'll learn why your digital products aren't selling nearly as much as you planned for and how to diversify and scale your income by launching the right way. Text: launchyourself, all one word to: 44222.